Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 01:02 PM CDT

[/QUOTE]

I'm the guy who mentioned Paul Simon. (Actually studied with him 'way, 'way back. Most successful classmate: Melissa Manchester.) I thought your post was quite interesting: nicely reasoned and well expressed. And it sounds like you had a very good, extremely versatile band. [/QUOTE]

Very impressive, gatorman. A brush with true greatness. I didn't realize that Paul Simon took students. And Melissa? Wow. The biggest musical success story from my high school, as far as I know, is George Lynch, the maniac guitarist. Interestingly (to me) there were other guitarists around at the time who were that good, if not better, whose amazing talents never saw the light of day. That's just the way.

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 01:16 PM CDT

I agree with those who have said comparing originals and cover is like comparing Kiwi fruit and rutabagas. To be honest, to me, playing covers is much, much easier than playing my own songs because I can remember the lyrics to the cover songs. I can belt out "Brown Eyed Girl" with no problem, but if I were to perform 90% of my own works, I'd have to have my notebook sitting there in front of me.

I will say writing original songs, however, is very easy - unless it isn't. Sometimes they just almost seem to write themselves and, at other times, every single lyric and chord is a struggle to get down on paper. I much prefer performing originals simply because its "mine" and I can change it up, screw around with it and generally fold, spindle and mutilate it anyway I want to and no one really cares. If you don't do "Margaritaville" just right, then the natives get restless. There's some leeway with cover tunes, but only with cover tunes people don't know by heart.

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 01:31 PM CDT

That cover you're playing? someone WROTE that, and wrote it well enough that it grabbed people by the pants, and people now want to hear you cover it. Anyone may be able to write a song, but can anyone write a song that's good enough for others to cover?

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 01:42 PM CDT

I had an interesting thing happen to me a weekend ago. Some friends of mine were playing at the local biker bar, the band is called Chop Shoppe, out of Sacramento, Ca. they do a lengthy all-cover set, consisting of some classic rock tunes, as well as the top 80’s metal tunes, such as crazy train, living after midnight, etc. the thing that struck me as I listened, glad not to be up there with them, was they did not faithfully represent the tunes they played. I watched, and found myself thinking if I were a cover band, I would play the covers as faithfully as possible. These guys got up there, and it sounded as if they played these songs years ago, and are now doing renditions from memory.
And truth be told, no one cared.
All the patrons noticed some of the songs by their chorus hook, or guitar riff, and the rest is forgotten. And most cover bands can get away with this, in my opinion, due to the alcohol content in the crowd.
Song writing is hard. Really hard. Especially difficult in a solo setting. You don’t have ideas to bounce off another band mate. Writing in a band environment is not easy, but it does seem to gel quicker, with the right group of guys/gals.
Personally, I am writing an opera. A metal opera, but one with three acts and a major story line. I find it easier to write fiction than to write about heartbreak or partying. The fictional songwriter has to weave a convincing tale, but does not have to cop to it being about him, per se. I would think, to write a series of convincing and personal tunes takes a lot more honesty and ability than to do a rendition of another person’s feelings. It is like making a pizza. Some can do a pepperoni, but others can create masterpieces in mozzarella

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 02:03 PM CDT

Quote by: Allen Dean I had an interesting thing happen to me a weekend ago. Some friends of mine were playing at the local biker bar, the band is called Chop Shoppe, out of Sacramento, Ca. they do a lengthy all-cover set, consisting of some classic rock tunes, as well as the top 80’s metal tunes, such as crazy train, living after midnight, etc. the thing that struck me as I listened, glad not to be up there with them, was they did not faithfully represent the tunes they played. I watched, and found myself thinking if I were a cover band, I would play the covers as faithfully as possible. These guys got up there, and it sounded as if they played these songs years ago, and are now doing renditions from memory. And truth be told, no one cared. All the patrons noticed some of the songs by their chorus hook, or guitar riff, and the rest is forgotten. And most cover bands can get away with this, in my opinion, due to the alcohol content in the crowd. Song writing is hard. Really hard. Especially difficult in a solo setting. You don’t have ideas to bounce off another band mate. Writing in a band environment is not easy, but it does seem to gel quicker, with the right group of guys/gals. Personally, I am writing an opera. A metal opera, but one with three acts and a major story line. I find it easier to write fiction than to write about heartbreak or partying. The fictional songwriter has to weave a convincing tale, but does not have to cop to it being about him, per se. I would think, to write a series of convincing and personal tunes takes a lot more honesty and ability than to do a rendition of another person’s feelings. It is like making a pizza. Some can do a pepperoni, but others can create masterpieces in mozzarella

Well, yeah. There are cover bands and then there are cover bands. Where I work, there is a group of guys who convene during company picnics to play oldies (Sam and Dave, Beach Boys, etc.), and they aren't much good. But nobody cares because it's a social occasion, and it's all very pleasant and easy going.

Much different when representatives from a club chain show up to audition you and you're looking to double your pay.

In one of my rock bands, we were auditioning for a second guitarist. We found a guy who had the ability, the taste, and the equipment to fit right in. But he wanted to stylize everything, muck around with the songs, and change them in ways that he saw as improvements (oh, for example, like changing the timing of the opening riff on "Walk this Way"). It could have been OK, but the rest of us wouldn't budge, so he quit. Some people have very definite philosophies when it comes to covering, and others don't.

For awhile, we shared a practice studio with a tribute band (The White) that covered Zeppelin only. They had them down, all the way down, including the appearance. That's really "covering" taken to its logical conclusion.

Looking forward to your opera. Very ambitious!

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 02:29 PM CDT

I spent many years in bands doing covers. Some we did well others not so much. But the songs always in some way had our twist to them,not much but our little signature and that was fun. The patrons must have liked us because we were working alot. That was practice,practice,practice, and there is nothing hard about that. The hard part is that you may not want to. or the others have chosen a song you may not like.
As a writer you have to take a idea and turn it into song. Sometimes this is not difficult but other times the idea is great but getting it where it needs to be is very difficult,and sometimes it just goes into the binder with all the others to be looked at at a later date. If however you complete the song then you have the challenge of getting the other band members to play it the way you see and hear it, no easy task. Then the easy part practice,practice,practice.

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 02:39 PM CDT

...and just to make this clear, I'm not dogging on covers or cover bands. Has anyone ever seen the Atomic Punks? They do nothing but DLR era Van Halen and they do it better than anybody (probably including the current VH roster). There's also a Rush cover band that plays when the Atomic Punks come to Phoenix and to me it sounds like Rush. I'm not a big Rush fan but these guys put it together perfectly... right down to a spot on Geddy Lee impression. So I'm not saying one or the other is the "right" way to go.

I'm Eric VanAusdal and I approved this message.

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 02:51 PM CDT

Forget it! (deleted) A fellow MacJammer advised me to stay the f*ck out of the forum! Some very sound advice, indeed..... Wish I would have listened!

Ax

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 03:30 PM CDT

Quote by: Allen Dean I had an interesting thing happen to me a weekend ago. Some friends of mine were playing at the local biker bar, the band is called Chop Shoppe, out of Sacramento, Ca. they do a lengthy all-cover set, consisting of some classic rock tunes, as well as the top 80’s metal tunes, such as crazy train, living after midnight, etc. the thing that struck me as I listened, glad not to be up there with them, was they did not faithfully represent the tunes they played. I watched, and found myself thinking if I were a cover band, I would play the covers as faithfully as possible. These guys got up there, and it sounded as if they played these songs years ago, and are now doing renditions from memory. And truth be told, no one cared. All the patrons noticed some of the songs by their chorus hook, or guitar riff, and the rest is forgotten. And most cover bands can get away with this, in my opinion, due to the alcohol content in the crowd. Song writing is hard. Really hard. Especially difficult in a solo setting. You don’t have ideas to bounce off another band mate. Writing in a band environment is not easy, but it does seem to gel quicker, with the right group of guys/gals. Personally, I am writing an opera. A metal opera, but one with three acts and a major story line. I find it easier to write fiction than to write about heartbreak or partying. The fictional songwriter has to weave a convincing tale, but does not have to cop to it being about him, per se. I would think, to write a series of convincing and personal tunes takes a lot more honesty and ability than to do a rendition of another person’s feelings. It is like making a pizza. Some can do a pepperoni, but others can create masterpieces in mozzarella

For the most part, when I've done covers or been in bands that did covers, we did our on "interpretation" of the song. Usually, the songs are much more stripped down since I almost always play in a three-piece (drums, bass and guitar). It can be fun taking apart someone else's tune and putting it back together in your own way, but still having it recognizable. Just think of all the country/rock crossover covers that have come out over the years. (Dolly Parton's cover of Collective Soul's shine is one of the best that comes to mind.)

I guess the more I think about it, the more I realize there is an art to doing covers. The creative process may be eliminated in the actual creating of the song, but there are plenty of ways to use imagination and put your own spark into a cover.

However, I do have one rule when it comes to covers: no "Mustang Sally" under any circumstances. When I become dictator of the world, I am outlawing that song and the penalty for even humming it will be the most unpleasant death imaginable - listening to "Escape (The Pina Colada Song)" over and over again until your brain melts.

BTW, I hope you're going to post you opera here at MJ. That sounds cool!

Re:Songwriting Is Easy?
Monday, May 19 2008 @ 05:04 PM CDT

Bump