Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 10:48 AM CDT

Yes, ridiculous for a $500 piece of software to come without any printed documentation. My wife and I were both art directors at Apple and worked on various documentation suites. The elimination of the pdf version also means that they didn't have to have an Art Director, designer or layout people involved in the production of the manual (or a professional indexer - much better than simply indexing the words and sticking them in a lookup table). Cheap, cheap, cheap...and a disservice to the customer.

I too like printed docs, and not just because I'm in the business. I like to be able to learn while away from the screen and appreciate the serendipity of seeing other things of interest that may surround the piece of information I am looking for.

As Jim points out this creates a 3rd part opportunity. I'm sure Apple likes folks running out and plunking down an additional $90 for the two Logic Training books that are out there (which BTW are really not that great for reference). I would really appreciate it if they simply made printed manuals available at an additional cost. Say, $45 for the set. This is how Sibelius does it (at least in v5). This way those who don't like printed manuals don't have to get them, It cuts down on overall shipping and packaging (and paper usage), but still lets us documentation luddites get the most from our software.

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 11:23 AM CDT

You guys want DP - 1100 page manual (and they send you a new one if you're upgrading)...now that says serious when it's lying on your desk.

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 03:21 PM CDT

And I just bought it. Damn.

Maybe Apple is trying to become more environmentally conscious...or maybe they are just being lazy. I only got the upgrade though so I wonder if it will even come in a box.

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 03:40 PM CDT

Wait for this book due to come out Oct. 1 2009

Apple Pro Training Series: Logic Pro 9 and Logic Express 9 (DVD-ROM)
by David Nahmani

Product Description
Completely revised and updated for Logic Pro 9 and Logic Express 9, this Apple-certified guide shows you how to record, produce, and polish music files with Apple’s professional audio software. Veteran music producer David Nahmani’s step-by-step, instructions teach you everything from basic music creation to advanced production techniques using Logic’s software synthesizers, samplers, and digital signal processors. Using the book’s DVD files and either Logic Pro 9 or Logic Express 9, you’ll begin making music in the first lesson. Whether you’re looking to use your computer as a digital recording studio, create musical compositions, or transfer that song in your head into music you can share, this comprehensive book/DVD combo will show you how.

* DVD-ROM includes lesson and media files

* Focused lessons take you step-by-step through professional, real-world projects

* Accessible writing style puts an expert instructor at your side

* Ample illustrations and keyboard shortcuts help you master techniques fast

* Lesson goals and time estimates help you plan your time

* Chapter review questions summarize what you’ve learned and prepare you for the Apple Certifi ed Pro Exam






About the Author
Composer and producer David Nahmani co-wrote and co-produced songs for the MTV series The Real World and Undressed. He engineered and produced three classical albums on Decca Records/BMG for the Bernard Calmel Orchestra in Paris, France, released tracks and remixes on Cleopatra Records, and, using Logic Pro, has programmed XF MIDI songs for Yamaha. David is the director of the Los Angeles Logic Pro User Group and publisher of LogicProHelp.com. His extensive teaching experience includes Logic training at Apple public events, such as Remix Hotel, Taxi Road Rally, and ASCAP Music Expo.
Product Details

* DVD-ROM: 552 pages
* Publisher: Peachpit Press (October 1, 2009)
* Language: English
* ISBN-10: 0321636805
* ISBN-13: 978-0321636805

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 03:58 PM CDT

Very nice, but it will be quite pricey I imagine. Doesnt this add insult to injury after shelling out for a pro application (the same price I might that I paid for Logic 8 and Logic 7, both of which came with extremely useful and nicely present manuals.

I know we buy the software to make music with and that ultimately that is what counts, since when has that been part of the apple way of doing things.

I think they have shot themselves in the foot somewhat with this...the question is, how long will they limp along for before they correct this snafu?

Logic 10? Logic 11??

Quote by: damiengh Wait for this book due to come out Oct. 1 2009 Apple Pro Training Series: Logic Pro 9 and Logic Express 9 (DVD-ROM) by David Nahmani Product Description Completely revised and updated for Logic Pro 9 and Logic Express 9, this Apple-certified guide shows you how to record, produce, and polish music files with Apple’s professional audio software. Veteran music producer David Nahmani’s step-by-step, instructions teach you everything from basic music creation to advanced production techniques using Logic’s software synthesizers, samplers, and digital signal processors. Using the book’s DVD files and either Logic Pro 9 or Logic Express 9, you’ll begin making music in the first lesson. Whether you’re looking to use your computer as a digital recording studio, create musical compositions, or transfer that song in your head into music you can share, this comprehensive book/DVD combo will show you how. * DVD-ROM includes lesson and media files * Focused lessons take you step-by-step through professional, real-world projects * Accessible writing style puts an expert instructor at your side * Ample illustrations and keyboard shortcuts help you master techniques fast * Lesson goals and time estimates help you plan your time * Chapter review questions summarize what you’ve learned and prepare you for the Apple Certifi ed Pro Exam About the Author Composer and producer David Nahmani co-wrote and co-produced songs for the MTV series The Real World and Undressed. He engineered and produced three classical albums on Decca Records/BMG for the Bernard Calmel Orchestra in Paris, France, released tracks and remixes on Cleopatra Records, and, using Logic Pro, has programmed XF MIDI songs for Yamaha. David is the director of the Los Angeles Logic Pro User Group and publisher of LogicProHelp.com. His extensive teaching experience includes Logic training at Apple public events, such as Remix Hotel, Taxi Road Rally, and ASCAP Music Expo. Product Details * DVD-ROM: 552 pages * Publisher: Peachpit Press (October 1, 2009) * Language: English * ISBN-10: 0321636805 * ISBN-13: 978-0321636805

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 04:12 PM CDT

Quote by: Vic Holman Well, it seems when ever you buy a upgrade to most software you never do get a full manual. Adobe is just as guilty. The additional add ons are not hard to figure out. The videos at Apple, gave a decent starting point on some of the new features.

They also have a free first look tutorial here:

http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/logicfirstlook

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 04:27 PM CDT

Quote by: Jim Bouchard On the other hand, you could take advantage of the opportunity, write your own manual on how to use Logic 9, and publish it yourself and become rich and famous. Just copy the Logic 8 manual and change names where appropriate.

kind of like writing an updated textbook. as someone who writes curriculums (and who has borrowed liberally), the key is to change the order of the chapters. that's a really good idea Jim.

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, July 31 2009 @ 06:32 PM CDT

Hi..I find it offensive of Apple to do this..Simple..A Pro App..Should come with a Pro refernce manual..Period..

It ain't about being GRENN..The most efficient way for that to occur comes from the Co. itself..Not the consumer..Apple could design the best and most efficient way for that to occur..Also..Cut me a break..Wait for some guys manual..Forget it..It will never be as in depth as the,now gone printed manual once supplied my Emagic then Apple..

There isn't even a PDF manual I'm aware of..

I Prefer to read a manual under a shady tree..Who knows they may have been related..

Even a PDF manual is in no way GREEN...That is rubbish that I hear people yap about way too much..Print it and you will see for yourself..No one should have to print a manual from a SO CALLED Pro app....I've moved for the most part to Live8..And use LP8 as a sample editor IF I NEED to..Not much need for that however having Kontakt and Alchemy..

BUYER Beware here..Unless you know it inside and out..You are on the cusp of frustration. Which will lead to despair....And nothing like joy.. Just a fun run it up as it is mild rant I suppose..LOL....TAylor

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Friday, September 11 2009 @ 11:47 PM CDT

A lot of Mixed Reactions with Logic 9 atm. Personally, would love to upgrade to Logic 9. But It does seem very quick from 8 to 9. Really wanna upgrade but some plugins like TC Powercore, aren't just compatible yet with Snow Leopard.

Am I reading right there's no PDF manual for Logic 9????

Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com

Re:Disappointed-Logic9
Saturday, September 12 2009 @ 12:52 AM CDT

Quote by: acoosticzoo A lot of Mixed Reactions with Logic 9 atm. Personally, would love to upgrade to Logic 9. But It does seem very quick from 8 to 9. Really wanna upgrade but some plugins like TC Powercore, aren't just compatible yet with Snow Leopard. Am I reading right there's no PDF manual for Logic 9???? Josef Horhay Mixing Engineer www.acoosticzoo.com

Yep

Apple seem to be making a lot of stupid boo boos lately...oh well, at least they still sell ipods and iphones and maybe thats what it is all about these days