Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Thursday, August 02 2012 @ 12:53 PM CDT

Quote by: J_Gretch Did anyone else notice that the graph running from 2004 to 2012 peaked at the 2008 election and went down from there....Strange.

2008 onwards also represents a time when macjams took on a very 'tea-party-esque' flavour for a while...equally strange...i wonder if that may have had an impact in reduced activity on the site

Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Thursday, August 02 2012 @ 03:40 PM CDT

Quote by: particledots 2008 onwards also represents a time when macjams took on a very 'tea-party-esque' flavour for a while...equally strange...i wonder if that may have had an impact in reduced activity on the site

I know for sure that certain people don't hang out here anymore precisely because of that.

Victor.

Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Thursday, August 02 2012 @ 04:27 PM CDT

Quote by: VicDiesel Quote by: particledots 2008 onwards also represents a time when macjams took on a very 'tea-party-esque' flavour for a while...equally strange...i wonder if that may have had an impact in reduced activity on the site I know for sure that certain people don't hang out here anymore precisely because of that. Victor.

What a shame.

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Thursday, August 02 2012 @ 04:49 PM CDT

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Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Friday, August 03 2012 @ 08:02 PM CDT

Quote by: carbon Quote by: Doadars Uncle Oh, btw, I also agree with crissew! it seems like there is a consensus; we agree that the sort of commenting crissew has described occurs here. we've identified the problem. terrific. the question is, what are we going to do about it? as responsible members of this community, don't we have an obligation to set the example of the kind of behavior we want to see here? or do we simply raise a gripe and end the discussion there? we can bitch all we want about what this site is or what it ain't. i prefer to look hard in the mirror and resolve to set an example of honesty. or more specifically, commenting without an ulterior motive of payback. who's with me? by the way, i didn't mean to single you out uncle o' doader. i have received comments from you in the past and believed them to be sincere. you seem like an honest cat to me and i have valued your feedback, and have enjoyed your music. i quoted you because it seemed a good segue into a discussion about what we can do beyond simply identifying the problem.

I've left comments complimenting a song but mentioning aspects I thought needed work. I have little experience, so a lot of the time if I don't like something I can't even tell if it's because it needs attention or if it's just not my kind of music. When I hear something that I am confident I can make suggestions that might improve the piece, I do that. So far they've all been well received.

Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Friday, August 03 2012 @ 08:44 PM CDT

Quote by: crissew I hesitate to even say this because I know the dedicated MJ members here may take offense but what the hay. I think it has become a back slapper website for musicians. No matter what song is posted, it is reviewed like it is a classic. While it feels great initially, it gets pointless after a while. I do get the desire to give positive reinforcement, but it becomes meaningless when everyone gets kudos regardless of what they post. Just my 2 cents. I appreciate VicDiesel critiquing my mix or some aspect of my song 100 times more than someone going "great job". This site has become "you give me a good comment and I will give you a good comment". Not very validating once people catch on to it. I may be completely off base, sorry in advance. I know the MJ militia is coming for me now, I am braced for impact.

Some of my best music started out from a feeling of dejection, self-deprication and, I guess, ennui. At times like that I would make a "non-song" - something absolutely awful, insulting, and pointless. The idea being to post some absolute crap on the MacJams music site just to see if anyone would even notice, and possibly expose my worst fear: that the site is truly vapid, a mere feel-good blackhole, and confirmation that the time and effort I invest there is a total waste of time and energy.

Then somewhere in the middle of that process, perhaps out of guilt, I clean up the "non-song" a little (not unlike polishing a turd). And I post that. And several people comment how much they like it. And I'm left not knowing if it really is meaningless or not.

Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Friday, August 03 2012 @ 09:42 PM CDT

2 points I'd add: 1) the internet environment has changed in the last 4 years -- someone else mentioned that and 2) most of the types of music that are big in the U.S. are not posted here, such as:

Top 2012 Concerts

* 2012 Aerosmith Tickets
* 2012 Big Time Rush Tickets
* 2012 Black Eyed Peas Tickets
* 2012 Bruce Springsteen Tickets
* 2012 Coldplay Tickets
* 2012 Dave Matthews Band Tickets
* 2012 Fleetwood Mac tickets
* 2012 Katy Perry Tickets
* 2012 Lady Gaga Tickets
* 2012 Madonna Tickets
* 2012 Nickelback Tickets

* 2012 Radiohead Tickets
* 2012 Rascal Flatts Tickets
* 2012 Red Hot Chilli Peppers Tickets
* 2012 Pearl Jam Tickets
* 2012 Roger Waters Tickets
* 2012 Smashing Pumpkins Tickets
* 2012 Taylor Swift Tickets
* 2012 The Black Keys Tickets
* 2012 The Rolling Stones Tickets
* 2012 Van Halen Tickets

Say what you will about any of those acts but there is very little of that around here.

Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Friday, August 03 2012 @ 10:40 PM CDT

Quote by: SmokeyVW Quote by: crissew I hesitate to even say this because I know the dedicated MJ members here may take offense but what the hay. I think it has become a back slapper website for musicians. No matter what song is posted, it is reviewed like it is a classic. While it feels great initially, it gets pointless after a while. I do get the desire to give positive reinforcement, but it becomes meaningless when everyone gets kudos regardless of what they post. Just my 2 cents. I appreciate VicDiesel critiquing my mix or some aspect of my song 100 times more than someone going "great job". This site has become "you give me a good comment and I will give you a good comment". Not very validating once people catch on to it. I may be completely off base, sorry in advance. I know the MJ militia is coming for me now, I am braced for impact. Some of my best music started out from a feeling of dejection, self-deprication and, I guess, ennui. At times like that I would make a "non-song" - something absolutely awful, insulting, and pointless. The idea being to post some absolute crap on the MacJams music site just to see if anyone would even notice, and possibly expose my worst fear: that the site is truly vapid, a mere feel-good blackhole, and confirmation that the time and effort I invest there is a total waste of time and energy. Then somewhere in the middle of that process, perhaps out of guilt, I clean up the "non-song" a little (not unlike polishing a turd). And I post that. And several people comment how much they like it. And I'm left not knowing if it really is meaningless or not.

Bill - If you learned something - enjoyed yourself - made music instead of watching TV - or eating more ice cream (my vice) - then it it was meaningful. What other people think is really of no importance at all. We all started making music for ourselves and would likely continue to do so if the internet checked out tomorrow.
The rest is different people dealing with a social network in different ways. Not worth damning or praising - just basic behavior. Some overly gracious and encouraging and some thoughtful and critical. We do what we do and that's what this place is.

Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Saturday, August 04 2012 @ 09:24 AM CDT

Quote by: SmokeyVW Quote by: crissew I hesitate to even say this because I know the dedicated MJ members here may take offense but what the hay. I think it has become a back slapper website for musicians. No matter what song is posted, it is reviewed like it is a classic. While it feels great initially, it gets pointless after a while. I do get the desire to give positive reinforcement, but it becomes meaningless when everyone gets kudos regardless of what they post. Just my 2 cents. I appreciate VicDiesel critiquing my mix or some aspect of my song 100 times more than someone going "great job". This site has become "you give me a good comment and I will give you a good comment". Not very validating once people catch on to it. I may be completely off base, sorry in advance. I know the MJ militia is coming for me now, I am braced for impact. Some of my best music started out from a feeling of dejection, self-deprication and, I guess, ennui. At times like that I would make a "non-song" - something absolutely awful, insulting, and pointless. The idea being to post some absolute crap on the MacJams music site just to see if anyone would even notice, and possibly expose my worst fear: that the site is truly vapid, a mere feel-good blackhole, and confirmation that the time and effort I invest there is a total waste of time and energy. Then somewhere in the middle of that process, perhaps out of guilt, I clean up the "non-song" a little (not unlike polishing a turd). And I post that. And several people comment how much they like it. And I'm left not knowing if it really is meaningless or not.

Then again, it seems to be the nature of the beast. Other sites I've been on have done the same with comments. Comments are driven by sweetness and very complimentary. These "other" sites are busy and vital. I'm wondering if the politics of MJ has caused folks to move on, as has been suggested? There is enough stress in my life. There are plenty of politics in the world. How much does it have to be on a site which I see as therapeutic?

But rather than avoid politics, there has been a group, here, that wants to evolve methods of discussion to improve how these topics are covered so as not to drive people away, rather invite them in. I think this is an interesting concept and maybe a "foot up" for MJ over other sites to a better internet community, overall.

Re:Pretty S-l-o-w
Saturday, August 04 2012 @ 09:59 AM CDT

If MacJams were a client, I'd say it has a positioning problem.

Is MacJams:

1) A place for consumers of music to discover (and become fans of) independent artists,

2) A place for musicians to improve their craft and/or pursue commercial success,

3) Or, a social network for amateur musicians to collaborate and share resources.

I think most members would say, "well, it's all of those things." The problem is, it doesn't satisfy any of those audiences particularly well. For each of these audiences there are other "brands" available that are devoted to serving each particular interest - as a result these competitors provide a better experience.

I'm not knocking MacJams. I'm just saying that, because there is no clear market strategy, it is unlikely that we'll see much growth. In fact, as competitors continue to emerge and innovate, it's likely we'll see attrition.

I think much of the original growth was fueled by the advent and expansion of the market (English-speaking adopters of low-cost music production software). That market has pretty much peaked at this point. The cost of entry is low enough that anyone who wanted in, is in. Future growth will depend on competitive advantages.