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VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2804
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 09:45 AM CST



So, after hours of research, I can dismiss [what was written here
. But what am I supposed to do the next time I wake up and someone whose name I don't know has produced another plausible-seeming account of bias in the climate-change science? Am I supposed to invest another couple of hours in it? Do I have to waste the time of the readers of this blog with yet another long post on the subject? Why? Why do these people keep bugging us like this? Does the spirit of scientific scepticism really require that I remain forever open-minded to denialist humbug until it's shown to be wrong? At what point am I allowed to simply say, look, I've seen these kind of claims before, they always turns out to be wrong, and it's not worth my time to look into it?



http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2009/12/trust_scientists

Victor.

-- My CD. Use coupon code "macjams" on BandCamp.
SmokeyVW
Forum Full Member


Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 6670
Location: N/A
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 10:27 AM CST

Quote by: VicDiesel
...http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2009/12/trust_scientists
Victor.

Thank you. This is the most persuasive post I've seen in this thread.
Dadai.2
Forum Full Member


Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 1316
Location: Santa Barbara, CA United States
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 10:55 AM CST

Quote by: VicDiesel


So, after hours of research, I can dismiss [what was written here
. But what am I supposed to do the next time I wake up and someone whose name I don't know has produced another plausible-seeming account of bias in the climate-change science? Am I supposed to invest another couple of hours in it? Do I have to waste the time of the readers of this blog with yet another long post on the subject? Why? Why do these people keep bugging us like this? Does the spirit of scientific scepticism really require that I remain forever open-minded to denialist humbug until it's shown to be wrong? At what point am I allowed to simply say, look, I've seen these kind of claims before, they always turns out to be wrong, and it's not worth my time to look into it?



http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2009/12/trust_scientists

Victor.



Just when I thought I was out, they'll pulled me back in.....

There's always more to the story. All I'm saying is this is not a closed case.

The reply to the Economist critique

The original article

I'll try to stay away.
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2804
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 11:12 AM CST

Quote by: Dadai.2

There's always more to the story. All I'm saying is this is not a closed case.

The reply to the Economist critique



Let me guess, before I start reading, your link will contain links to peer reviewed articles that indicate that there is a genuine problem?

I hope my link was clear: like the author, I do not relish chasing down information merely to refute stuff that 1/ was written by uninformed amateurs and 2/ that I would unseen bet my mortage was rubbish.

Ok, now I will read your link.

Victor.

-- My CD. Use coupon code "macjams" on BandCamp.
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2804
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 11:32 AM CST

Look I made my point: nothing any climate denier has said has stood up to scrutiny. Someone can take hours refuting this rebuttal and I'm sure it will be found to be crap anyway.

I understand that you (and a few others here) have an anti-authoritarian attitude, but this is not about a lone wolf challenging the powers-that-be. There are no powers-that-be: scientists compete fiercely with each other. If there was truly a problem they would fight each other for the opportunity to be the first to publish it. If this guy is right, let him publish in a legitimate place where his evidence will be carefully scrutinized.

Victor.

-- My CD. Use coupon code "macjams" on BandCamp.
Dadai.2
Forum Full Member


Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 1316
Location: Santa Barbara, CA United States
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 11:46 AM CST


Vic, there is no desire on my part to get into this with you given the level of condescension and patronization that you engage in. I actually think I'd rather chew gristle.

chronologic
Forum Full Member


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 338
Location: , United States
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 12:40 PM CST

Quote by: Dadai.2

Vic, there is no desire on my part to get into this with you given the level of condescension and patronization that you engage in. I actually think I'd rather chew gristle.




Not trying to cause any problems or anything, but I was always impressed by my father's eating habits. He loved gristle. He also loved the fat more than the meat, pickled pig's feet as much as the rest of the pig, turkey neck, radish sandwiches (straight), the mold on the cheese (the best part, of course)... ETC. My father used to take me fishing with him, and he would sit at the lake and blatantly ignore the mosquitoes, as they crawled up and down his nose, biting him. The man was hard as rock in every way. And to my memory, quite amazing. I miss the man. I guess the thought that comes to mind is that I just think the world has all kinds, and there is something to learn and something to love about damn near anybody, even the ugly parts just might be beautiful if you can get them in perspective. Yes, perspective is a great and wonderful tool, one to experience, to manipulate for the sheer pleasure of it. So, go eat some gristle! Wink And smile about it! Ha ha, my father the insane.

Totally independent new music: http://www.pollyputthekettleon.com
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2804
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 12:54 PM CST

Quote by: chronologic
So, go eat some gristle! Wink



I guess I haven't been in the south long enough: I have no idea what gristle is.

But I agree with your father. Turkey neck, chicken livers, posole, menudo, and beef tongue!

Victor.

-- My CD. Use coupon code "macjams" on BandCamp.
chronologic
Forum Full Member


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 338
Location: , United States
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 01:14 PM CST


More on topic...

I know there is a lot of debate about the warming thing, and I think that is OK. Debate is healthy no matter what the parties/sides say about it. I don't care if you think it is a waste of time or if A side or B person is an idiot. Idiots have a right to ask questions too and sometimes the idiot is right, 'cause those non-idiots (of which I am not one) didn't see through the simplicity. I hope the use of words is ok I don't know how else to say that. So anyway I just think the whole thing is just fine. Do your thing, make your arguments, have your fun.

For me, personally, one thing I really do care about and can clearly see is that air pollution is something that sucks. Especially in the winter. The air gets not just yellow but practically brown or even black on a really bad day. Tell me that is awesome. Tell me how much you love that. I don't love it. It makes me feel sick, and it makes me feel tired, and I think that the world could use more of a view and more sunshine. A hazy fog of particulate by products is not my idea of beautiful nor my idea of healthy. Maybe my dad would have liked it, but in this case, I really think not. Smog sucks. I hate it and if that is a personal opinion good for me, I guess I made it all the way to my age and got myself an opinion along the way. I hate smog. When I moved to the city my life really slowed down as I literally couldn't keep awake any more and I know that the reason is because I was sedated most of the time by the garbage in the air. I couldn't believe how much worse I felt. Eventually I got myself the heck away from the city and I felt better again. The smog problem is real and totally undeniable. It is not some fantasy and all you can really say to deny it is that "I love breathing fumes. No, really, I love it. Fumes are awesome. For fun on weekends I lock myself in my garage and breathe fumes until I am practically dead. Sometimes my wife has to come save me or I'd actually die but it's worth it because fumes are awesome.". Good for you man! Maybe next time you'll get all the way to nirvana! Go for it!!!

Personally I hate the smog and I think anything we can do to help reduce the amount of smog that people breathe is awesome. I am 110% behind it. Clean air is NOT too much to ask. I 110% stand by those companies doing research on how to make great vehicles that people will love to drive but won't make the air like that. I hope they get there soon because it would be awesome to drive around in a car that is affordable, powerful, quiet, AND clean. I stand 110% behind companies that look at their manufacturing process and ask if there is anything they can do to keep making great products without making the air or water like that. WHY THE HELL NOT? I think it is simply responsible. We should TRY to make our world a more enjoyable place for everybody to live in. Economics is a bullcrap excuse for not trying. If the right products and procedures are designed, economics won't be a problem, they'll actually be fuel for the fire. People WANT to live happy healthy lives if you give them what they want the economic engine will drive itself. Affordable clean power is not a pipe dream. It's the next step. That's my feeling and as I bring children into the world and I look to the sky I just want the sky to be CLEAN for myself and for my posterity. I'm not crazy I don't care what you say. Ok, I'm crazy. But still, clean air and water are more than nice things and people living in densely populated areas don't have these things. It is true that population itself is a concern, manifested in this way. I won't argue that. This is a topic every potential parent should probably consider, what is the balance? That is a WHOLE other ball of wax so I won't go into it here, I am sure we can't resolve it here on MacJams that is for sure. And no, it's not black and white, like so much else.

I'll tell you I grew up in the country, miles away from the nearest city, and it is easy to look at that stuff and say "I don't see it". Well, it's true, you don't. In the city you do. It's a REAL and SERIOUS problem. I feel bad for the people that still live in those areas and I thank the maker that I do not any more. Micheal2, you are going into Public Health, not Environmental, but I bet you have some thoughts about this subject. I feel it is a real a legitimate public health concern, and could even but an underlying cost to us all, one that isn't really given enough attention IMO. I know smoking cigarettes is considered a health risk, but how about smoking a Mercedes? Health risk???? What you smoking boy?

Thus has been presented my input. Thanks!

Totally independent new music: http://www.pollyputthekettleon.com
 
chronologic
Forum Full Member


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 338
Location: , United States
 
Re:Just saying
Sunday, December 13 2009 @ 01:18 PM CST

Quote by: VicDiesel
Quote by: chronologic
So, go eat some gristle! Wink



I guess I haven't been in the south long enough: I have no idea what gristle is.

But I agree with your father. Turkey neck, chicken livers, posole, menudo, and beef tongue!

Victor.



Gristle is the really hard stuff in a steak, more connective tissues than fat or muscle. The stuff that you end up chewing for awhile and then either give up and swallow whole or spit out. I am not sure which one is more correct as per etiquette, but I'm not exactly known for my table manners. In fact, well, never mind. I don't want to self deprecate any more than necessary. My dog and I are actually more in agreement on matters of palate than you might imagine.

Totally independent new music: http://www.pollyputthekettleon.com