Re:Gibson Raid
Friday, September 16 2011 @ 06:45 PM CDT

As a workplace, Gibson still leave a lot to be desired;

http://www.gearwire.com/gibson-lowestrankedemployer.html

Re:Gibson Raid
Friday, September 16 2011 @ 08:22 PM CDT

My techie's very down on Gibson, nowadays. He's shown me some of their newer stuff with the warped and dried out fingerboards/necks and lousy fretwork. When companies get that big, it's hard to imagine them putting out consistently great stuff.

Though I agree that laws need to be upheld, I sometimes question the basis of the laws (eg: outsourcing etc). I also know that part of my anger about this stems from Mark's point:

"But I guess I feel like there are MUCH BIGGER fish to fry... Instead of a raid involving quite a few "expensive" agents, seizure of wood, etc. How about a little more reasonable approach like a Federal Inquiry..."

Re:Gibson Raid
Friday, September 16 2011 @ 08:37 PM CDT

Did you see their Petition?

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-president-of-the-united-states-resolve-gibson-guitar-inquiry-protect-consumers-and-make-lacey-act-fair

Re:Gibson Raid
Friday, September 16 2011 @ 09:30 PM CDT

I don't think there are much bigger fish to fry than Gibson. The corporation is pretty huge and it has other brands under it besides the Gibson brand.

I would say the law is in place to try and force businesses who deal in exotic woods to take accountability for their actions. With a supply chain that spans the globe, everyone can point a finger at someone else, and typically it's the little fish that suffer the consequences, not the big fish.

In the madagascar ebony case, Gibson, in my opinion, was saying that they didn't care how the timber was sourced, they were simply trying to buy product that they wanted regardless of the sustainability of the forest and the questionable ethics of the government in charge over there.

Everyone in the supply chain is at the mercy of the biggest fish in the supply chain. The instrument sellers are at the mercy of Gibson by being forced to sell a certain amount of product or lose their business. The people harvesting the timber would not harvest timber in such a destructive manner if large companies like Gibson were not so willing to buy it. Everyone suffers from Gibson's indifference to anything but their bottom line.

I feel that in this instance, the big fish thought it wouldn't get caught, but it did, and rightly so.

I hope I'm right in the end.

It was really gratifying to read that link that BigSky posted. I'm glad I'm not alone.

Re:Gibson Raid
Saturday, September 17 2011 @ 07:22 AM CDT

Quote by: Elevator_Funk I don't think there are much bigger fish to fry than Gibson. The corporation is pretty huge and it has other brands under it besides the Gibson brand. I would say the law is in place to try and force businesses who deal in exotic woods to take accountability for their actions. With a supply chain that spans the globe, everyone can point a finger at someone else, and typically it's the little fish that suffer the consequences, not the big fish. In the madagascar ebony case, Gibson, in my opinion, was saying that they didn't care how the timber was sourced, they were simply trying to buy product that they wanted regardless of the sustainability of the forest and the questionable ethics of the government in charge over there. Everyone in the supply chain is at the mercy of the biggest fish in the supply chain. The instrument sellers are at the mercy of Gibson by being forced to sell a certain amount of product or lose their business. The people harvesting the timber would not harvest timber in such a destructive manner if large companies like Gibson were not so willing to buy it. Everyone suffers from Gibson's indifference to anything but their bottom line. I feel that in this instance, the big fish thought it wouldn't get caught, but it did, and rightly so. I hope I'm right in the end. It was really gratifying to read that link that BigSky posted. I'm glad I'm not alone.

Good points. Especially about how everyone suffers from Gibson's indifference.

Good thread. Very informative. Thanks, people.

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Saturday, September 17 2011 @ 07:53 AM CDT

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Re:Gibson Raid
Saturday, September 17 2011 @ 09:01 AM CDT

I've been having a hard time watching this whole thing unfold...

I've been watching things at Gibson over the past ten or eleven years. For a while it was a popular thing to talk about at my local music store, and someone I know who worked at some other, larger, music stores in the area told me it came up there, too...

Over the years, Gibson has been criticized for slipping quality while raising prices. I certainly saw that in action when I went with one of the young men I work with to help him buy an SG. We pulled a series of them down off the wall at a big music store, and the fretwork on all of them, every one, was awful. Carve your hands up awful. I had to insist on a full, free and complete set-up before I let him buy one... Terrible intonation, just not a really finished guitar...

At the same time, Gibson was making it really hard for the small, all-American mom and pop stores, or even the middle-weight local stores, to keep the brand. The annual minimum buy was really big, and one had to buy the full line, even the ones that weren't so hot or didn't sell. A lot of stores, including my local one, ended up dropping the line entirely.

Going to online forums, you'd see people grouching about how bad the company was.

Then you'd see Gibson rated by someone or other as one of the worst companies to work for. An awful lot of stuff on the Internet going after Henry Juskiewicz as being a terrible person to work for.

Then the first raid.

And then a couple years ago, Juskiewicz was invited to be the first CEO to be interviewed by Premier Guitar for a new series they were doing. He was given an opportunity to respond to all the bad Gibson sentiment out there, but he dropped out, apparently at the last minute.

So after all that, happening over a number of years, I get a bit cynical to find multi-millionaire Henry Juskiewicz suddenly being portrayed as the friend of the American working man, the martyr for small American business...suddenly showing up on all the right wing radio and television shows with a series of well scripted talking points, getting invited to talks and to Congress by various politicians.

I'm not at all worried that any working musician is going to find their vintage instruments taken at the border. I think that's a talking point, designed to get people worried and up in arms.

I think if the law says that there's a difference between importing certain rare raw timber and importing wood that's already machined, then that's what the deal is, and Juskiewicz knows it, and it's not the same as saying that if he employs overseas workers they'll let him alone. They're just telling him what the law states. A law that was passed under his buddy George Bush, if I'm not mistaken.

I guess I'm a bit more than suspicious about this, and not so eager to take only the official Juskiewicz spin on the facts.

Re:Gibson Raid
Saturday, September 17 2011 @ 10:27 AM CDT

Cool...thanks, Ed.

Re:Gibson Raid
Saturday, September 17 2011 @ 10:49 AM CDT

Quote by: Elevator_Funk Quote by: awigze my input was based on..... ...I'm all too willing to jump in on a Gibson bashing session as they are not run by music lovers just a failing business cashing in on a memory.

I'm unwilling to contribute to a lot of threads, here and elsewhere, regarding whether to buy a Gibson (or Fender, to a lesser degree) for that very reason. I don't want to be a fly in the ointment or rain on anyone's parade...but it really is a crapshoot when it comes to the bigger companies.

I was very lucky to find a fantastic Custom Shop Strat (you'd think they'd all be good coming off that line). You just have to look and look. Unless one comes along that's staring me in the face, I tend to look at the smaller makers for a really fine guitar, nowadays. Suhr and G&L come to mind, off the top of my head. Sadowsky, too...though he gets into a pricier arena. But he makes off the charts fantasic guitars and basses.

Re:Gibson Raid
Saturday, September 17 2011 @ 11:18 AM CDT

I've noticed that the last Gretsch and Fender I bought needed set up when I got them home. I think these larger manufactures are getting sloppy or leaving the setups up to the vendors and the vendors aren't taking the time to set up the guitars properly. Gretsch owned by Fender was made in indonesia. Quality wise it's well built but very temperamental. The hardware other than the Bigsby tremolo are cheap and not near has nice as the hardware on the American made Strat. There are some quality issues that leave little to desire and the initial setup may have changed my whole perception. I sold my Gretsch and went to an Antique/Guitar Shop in Grapevine to check out a G&L ASAT Classic guitar. They had two that had just arrived, I pulled one out of the case, the salesman handed me a tuner, the guitar was pretty much in tune and set up perfectly. The guitar includes a certificate from the manufacture with a description and features of the guitar, who built it and who set it up... down to the type of string the guitar was strung with. The quality is unbelievable and it's the best Tele/Guitar I have ever laid my hands on.

It's been 20 years since I purchased the only Gibson I own. The Les Paul I bought has been a work horse and an enjoyment to play through the years.

I'm sure we all feel a trend in this country. Not only Gibson but other company employees no longer are paid decent wages when it comes to manufacturing, since it's easier for the big corporations to pay someone over seas to build mediocre products, why not keep overhead down and profits up. When the work is done here, the under paid employees no longer take pride in the products they build. I know this is not true in every company but it probably prevails in most that still exist. There are products that are built in the US that are superior but they usually cost more.

I know... blah blah blah. I just wonder why one of the candidates doesn't use the slogan, "Made in America"?