Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 12:51 PM CDT

Here's a proposal.

Write what you want to say on - about - or to anyone or any issue.

DO NOT SUBMIT.

Open another page and listen to a few MJ tunes - maybe comment even.

Then go back and read your post that is still sitting there - imagining that you are on the other side - the receiving end.

Consider any adds or deletions - then post.

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 12:57 PM CDT

Quote by: -Harold- Quote by: michael2 Quote by: -Harold- Quote by: michael2 Quote by: -Harold- Quote by: -Harold- Someone needs to figure out how to keep government from taxing us on money we've already paid tax on. While they're at it, they can figure out how to keep the government from taxing me because I F*cking die. Now there's a corrupt scam if I ever saw one. Add to that list: Inheritance tax. Another corrupt money making scheme by the government to double tax money. Don't even just think "large inheritance" here; it happens to people with very little to pass on to their heirs, after they've gone through the cost and pains of settling matters after a loved one passes away; some times there's nothing left over, and bills to pay. It's fucked up government corruption. Period not sure what I think of this. I totally see your point, but at the same time if I was given a really pricey gift, I would have to pay taxes on it (half of the LA city council just got busted for accepting gifts like travel, event tickets, etc.. and had to pay up). so how is an inheritance any different than a gift? it's still income that you didn't have before. again, I have no opinion on this, just wondering aloud. Well, let's say that you've made enough to put some money away in savings to help your kids to go through college, and a nest egg invested in 401K or IRA to help you and your wife in your retirement years. The money you saved for the kids was taxed when you earned it, the retirement fund hasn't been taxed yet until you retire - so income taxes will need to be paid on that when the time comes. So, let's say you bought a house and furnishings along the way which you've paid taxes & interest on and paid for with money you earned and paid income taxes on (maybe some income tax deductions for the house have helped save you from paying as much tax, but U Sam is still ahead of you here). Maybe you've invested in some stocks, and done OK there, and paid income taxes on your earnings on the investments along the way. God forbid this ever happens to you, but let's say that your kids have grown up and you've got them just started in college and by some tragic accident you and your wife are killed. Fortunately you've written a will (right?) and assigned an executor of the estate, your children as heirs with a trust fund for them, etc. Maybe your (estate) net value is say $750K You want U Sam to get more tax money from you and your children through death tax, estate taxes, and inheritance taxes, money that you've already paid taxes on? well that's the part I understand: the "I don't want my kids to have to...." part. what I don't understand is why it wouldn't/shouldn't be seen as income. it's still a new influx of wealth to my kids that they didn't have before, and income is taxable. like Bud, I also don't want to come across as a financial conservative. I just don't understand the distinction, and I wish to pay my fair share regardless of others who don't (yeah I'm talking about you B of A). want to keep my side of the street clean. part of me agrees with you, and part of me thinks that most people don't have to worry about this as they will never get an inheritance. which comes back around to inequitable distribution of wealth if those that do get an inheritance don't have to pay taxes. again, just trying to wrap my head around this one. I mean no sarcasm here at all; But if you look at it that way, then our dependent children should be paying income taxes from the day they are born, filing for allowance we give them, food, housing, transportation - basically any thing we provide them along the way. never mind. I feel strongly about this, and thought this was a forum for discussion I really did not mean to "Polarize" anything PS: what is a "B of A"?

when referring to "B of A" I am referring to Bank of America (as they don't pay any taxes). you're not polarizing anything at all, we're just talking. as I said I am still unsure as to my opinion.

here's what I'm mulling over in regards to your argument Harold:
PRO: you personally already paid taxes on this wealth. why should someone else have to pay again. in a way I can agree with this.
CON: in a sense it's no different paying taxes on inheritance than having to pay taxes on a bonus you get at work. as wealth moves from person to person it gets taxed. I can agree with this as well. we need money to run this country.

i'm not necessarily in disagreement (or agreement) with you; just unsure. but to be honest, I am one of those people that thinks we all need to pay more taxes (but that's a different topic).

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 01:25 PM CDT

Quote by: michael2 Quote by: -Harold- Quote by: michael2 Quote by: -Harold- Quote by: michael2 Quote by: -Harold- Quote by: -Harold- Someone needs to figure out how to keep government from taxing us on money we've already paid tax on. While they're at it, they can figure out how to keep the government from taxing me because I F*cking die. Now there's a corrupt scam if I ever saw one. Add to that list: Inheritance tax. Another corrupt money making scheme by the government to double tax money. Don't even just think "large inheritance" here; it happens to people with very little to pass on to their heirs, after they've gone through the cost and pains of settling matters after a loved one passes away; some times there's nothing left over, and bills to pay. It's fucked up government corruption. Period not sure what I think of this. I totally see your point, but at the same time if I was given a really pricey gift, I would have to pay taxes on it (half of the LA city council just got busted for accepting gifts like travel, event tickets, etc.. and had to pay up). so how is an inheritance any different than a gift? it's still income that you didn't have before. again, I have no opinion on this, just wondering aloud. Well, let's say that you've made enough to put some money away in savings to help your kids to go through college, and a nest egg invested in 401K or IRA to help you and your wife in your retirement years. The money you saved for the kids was taxed when you earned it, the retirement fund hasn't been taxed yet until you retire - so income taxes will need to be paid on that when the time comes. So, let's say you bought a house and furnishings along the way which you've paid taxes & interest on and paid for with money you earned and paid income taxes on (maybe some income tax deductions for the house have helped save you from paying as much tax, but U Sam is still ahead of you here). Maybe you've invested in some stocks, and done OK there, and paid income taxes on your earnings on the investments along the way. God forbid this ever happens to you, but let's say that your kids have grown up and you've got them just started in college and by some tragic accident you and your wife are killed. Fortunately you've written a will (right?) and assigned an executor of the estate, your children as heirs with a trust fund for them, etc. Maybe your (estate) net value is say $750K You want U Sam to get more tax money from you and your children through death tax, estate taxes, and inheritance taxes, money that you've already paid taxes on? well that's the part I understand: the "I don't want my kids to have to...." part. what I don't understand is why it wouldn't/shouldn't be seen as income. it's still a new influx of wealth to my kids that they didn't have before, and income is taxable. like Bud, I also don't want to come across as a financial conservative. I just don't understand the distinction, and I wish to pay my fair share regardless of others who don't (yeah I'm talking about you B of A). want to keep my side of the street clean. part of me agrees with you, and part of me thinks that most people don't have to worry about this as they will never get an inheritance. which comes back around to inequitable distribution of wealth if those that do get an inheritance don't have to pay taxes. again, just trying to wrap my head around this one. I mean no sarcasm here at all; But if you look at it that way, then our dependent children should be paying income taxes from the day they are born, filing for allowance we give them, food, housing, transportation - basically any thing we provide them along the way. never mind. I feel strongly about this, and thought this was a forum for discussion I really did not mean to "Polarize" anything PS: what is a "B of A"? when referring to "B of A" I am referring to Bank of America (as they don't pay any taxes). you're not polarizing anything at all, we're just talking. as I said I am still unsure as to my opinion. here's what I'm mulling over in regards to your argument Harold: PRO: you personally already paid taxes on this wealth. why should someone else have to pay again. in a way I can agree with this. CON: in a sense it's no different paying taxes on inheritance than having to pay taxes on a bonus you get at work. as wealth moves from person to person it gets taxed. I can agree with this as well. we need money to run this country. i'm not necessarily in disagreement (or agreement) with you; just unsure. but to be honest, I am one of those people that thinks we all need to pay more taxes (but that's a different topic).

There is an issue being presented to the G20 conference that dovetails nicely to this - and that's the Financial Transfer Tax. Currently banks and other financial institutions are not taxed on financial transfers. A proposed 1% transfer tax would bring huge amount's of money into the public sector to help in recovery in this recession. The Tobin Tax is just one of the instruments available for this. I'm certain someone will have an opinion on why inheritance taxes and financial transfer taxes are apples and oranges - and I'm happy to hear what they have to say.

* Post Removed *
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 03:12 PM CDT

* This message has been removed *

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 07:50 PM CDT

Quote by: VicDiesel When you die, you don't exist anymore so don't pay taxes. Period. Don't make it sound like you pay twice. You pay once, then you die.

At the risk of being an unworthy contributor, I must disagree here. Why is it that if I die and have left instructions on how I want want my money spent, my wishes cannot be honored? I started out in life extremely poor, have lived in very meager circumstances, and have worked myself to exhaustion to get to a point where I have just a little nest egg to leave my family. I've paid all my taxes without cheating and have given Uncle Sam his share willingly. Why shouldn't I have the free choice to do what I want with my hard earned, taxed wealth, even after death?

Quote by: michael2 CON: in a sense it's no different paying taxes on inheritance than having to pay taxes on a bonus you get at work.

Except that in the case of a bonus, you haven't already been taxed on it. With an inheritance tax, the money has already been taxed.

Quote by: michael2 which comes back around to inequitable distribution of wealth if those that do get an inheritance don't have to pay taxes.

I'm just asking here and would really like to understand...If I have worked hard my whole life and paid my share of taxes, and through scrimping and saving I managed to have some money put away for my family when I'm no longer around to provide for them, how is it NOT inequitable if the money gets taxed again? In another way, isn't it inequitable to tax my wealth twice so that it can be given to someone else?

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 08:36 PM CDT

Quote by: Corporal Beef Quote by: VicDiesel When you die, you don't exist anymore so don't pay taxes. Period. Don't make it sound like you pay twice. You pay once, then you die. At the risk of being an unworthy contributor, I must disagree here. Why is it that if I die and have left instructions on how I want want my money spent, my wishes cannot be honored? I started out in life extremely poor, have lived in very meager circumstances, and have worked myself to exhaustion to get to a point where I have just a little nest egg to leave my family. I've paid all my taxes without cheating and have given Uncle Sam his share willingly. Why shouldn't I have the free choice to do what I want with my hard earned, taxed wealth, even after death? Quote by: michael2 CON: in a sense it's no different paying taxes on inheritance than having to pay taxes on a bonus you get at work. Except that in the case of a bonus, you haven't already been taxed on it. With an inheritance tax, the money has already been taxed. Quote by: michael2 which comes back around to inequitable distribution of wealth if those that do get an inheritance don't have to pay taxes. I'm just asking here and would really like to understand...If I have worked hard my whole life and paid my share of taxes, and through scrimping and saving I managed to have some money put away for my family when I'm no longer around to provide for them, how is it NOT inequitable if the money gets taxed again? In another way, isn't it inequitable to tax my wealth twice so that it can be given to someone else?

Yeppers...

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 09:23 PM CDT

I think most OWS protesters don't worry too much about an estate tax which is part of the reason they're protesting: most of the country is poor. 70% of Americans retire with $30,000 or less so I don't think they have to worry about paying an estate tax on assets worth over $5 million now, set to revert back to $675,000 in the year 2013 (assuming politicians don't change it again).

Financial crimes, fraud and propaganda that are fully backed by govt bailouts (our money) along with for-profit wars, for-profit health care and for-profit politicians are the major concern. If anybody out there is worth more than $5 million you can always start gifting me $12,000 a year if you're so worried about your tax liability, LOL.

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 09:24 PM CDT

Quote by: Corporal Beef Except that in the case of a bonus, you haven't already been taxed on it. With an inheritance tax, the money has already been taxed.

If I get a bonus, my boss has been taxed on the money he gives me. If I get an inheritance my father has been taxed on the money he gives me.

Or to put it the other way around, in the case of a bonus you haven't already been taxed on the money you get. In the case of an inheritance you haven't already been taxed on the money you get.

You're using sloppy sentence structure to make it sound like there is a difference. I don't think there is.

Victor.

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 09:27 PM CDT

Quote by: VicDiesel Quote by: Corporal Beef Except that in the case of a bonus, you haven't already been taxed on it. With an inheritance tax, the money has already been taxed. If I get a bonus, my boss has been taxed on the money he gives me. If I get an inheritance my father has been taxed on the money he gives me. Or to put it the other way around, in the case of a bonus you haven't already been taxed on the money you get. In the case of an inheritance you haven't already been taxed on the money you get. You're using sloppy sentence structure to make it sound like there is a difference. I don't think there is. Victor.

Victor beat me to it.

Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 10:01 PM CDT

...what a terrific exchange of thoughts ... thanks ... totally loving this.