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bud
Forum Full Member


Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 3698
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
 
Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 08:23 AM CDT

Interesting point Harold - well presented. I can see how inheritance tax looks a lot like double dipping.
I suppose another way to view the positive of having this money transfer to heirs tax free is to say that often these types of windfall earnings reenter the economy in terms of spending.
An heir might buy that new car they need (sales tax) - or renovate their house (work for contractors) - or it enters their financial holdings and will be taxed down the line. I'm starting to sound like a fiscal conservative. That's fine with me - that's what discussion is all about. The more we talk reasonably we realize how much we have in common.

It's better to regret something you have done, than something you haven't done.
michael2
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 3094
Location: Los Angeles, Cali USA
 
Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 11:09 AM CDT

Quote by: -Harold-
Quote by: michael2
Quote by: -Harold-
Quote by: -Harold-
Someone needs to figure out how to keep government from taxing us on money we've already paid tax on.

While they're at it, they can figure out how to keep the government from taxing me because I F*cking die. Now there's a corrupt scam if I ever saw one.

Add to that list: Inheritance tax. Another corrupt money making scheme by the government to double tax money.

Don't even just think "large inheritance" here; it happens to people with very little to pass on to their heirs, after they've gone through the cost and pains of settling matters after a loved one passes away; some times there's nothing left over, and bills to pay.

It's fucked up government corruption. Period



not sure what I think of this. I totally see your point, but at the same time if I was given a really pricey gift, I would have to pay taxes on it (half of the LA city council just got busted for accepting gifts like travel, event tickets, etc.. and had to pay up). so how is an inheritance any different than a gift? it's still income that you didn't have before.

again, I have no opinion on this, just wondering aloud.


Well, let's say that you've made enough to put some money away in savings to help your kids to go through college, and a nest egg invested in 401K or IRA to help you and your wife in your retirement years. The money you saved for the kids was taxed when you earned it, the retirement fund hasn't been taxed yet until you retire - so income taxes will need to be paid on that when the time comes. So, let's say you bought a house and furnishings along the way which you've paid taxes & interest on and paid for with money you earned and paid income taxes on (maybe some income tax deductions for the house have helped save you from paying as much tax, but U Sam is still ahead of you here). Maybe you've invested in some stocks, and done OK there, and paid income taxes on your earnings on the investments along the way.

God forbid this ever happens to you, but let's say that your kids have grown up and you've got them just started in college and by some tragic accident you and your wife are killed. Fortunately you've written a will (right?) and assigned an executor of the estate, your children as heirs with a trust fund for them, etc.

Maybe your (estate) net value is say $750K

You want U Sam to get more tax money from you and your children through death tax, estate taxes, and inheritance taxes, money that you've already paid taxes on?



well that's the part I understand: the "I don't want my kids to have to...." part. what I don't understand is why it wouldn't/shouldn't be seen as income. it's still a new influx of wealth to my kids that they didn't have before, and income is taxable.

like Bud, I also don't want to come across as a financial conservative. I just don't understand the distinction, and I wish to pay my fair share regardless of others who don't (yeah I'm talking about you B of A). want to keep my side of the street clean. Smile

part of me agrees with you, and part of me thinks that most people don't have to worry about this as they will never get an inheritance. which comes back around to inequitable distribution of wealth if those that do get an inheritance don't have to pay taxes.

again, just trying to wrap my head around this one.

VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2811
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 11:15 AM CDT

Quote by: -Harold-

You want U Sam to get more tax money from you and your children through death tax, estate taxes, and inheritance taxes, money that you've already paid taxes on?



When you die, you don't exist anymore so don't pay taxes. Period. Don't make it sound like you pay twice. You pay once, then you die.

When you are alive you can choose to give money to your children for college or you can spend it on an Aston Martin. Your saying that you will give it to them is just words; they don't actually have money: you can still give it to someone else.

When you die, and you have a will and such, your next of kin suddenly get a sum of money that they didn't have before, so they get taxed on it, just as if they won the lottery.

I sympathise with your feelings: you want to provide for those who stay behind, and they don't get 100% of what you are leaving behind, but legally they should pay taxes on it. At least, that's how I imagine the legal case runs.

Btw, saying "death taxes" is just a way to prejudice and polarize the issue before we have even started a discussion. If it wasn't for the fact that I know you personally I would have now dismissed you as someone unworthy to have a discussion with.

Victor.

-- My CD. Use coupon code "macjams" on BandCamp.


 
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Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 11:23 AM CDT

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Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 11:26 AM CDT

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Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 11:52 AM CDT

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Dadai.2
Forum Full Member


Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 1360
Location: Santa Barbara, CA United States
 
Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 11:55 AM CDT

"Be thankful I don't take it all..." - The Taxman



In case that link isn't working, here's the original:

VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2811
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 12:17 PM CDT

Quote by: -Harold-
Pardon? it's a pejorative neologism commonly used. No intent to prejudice and polarize

I did indeed err in saying "Death tax & inheritance &..."



Right. FAFAIK "death taxes" are "inheritance taxes". CORRECTION: "estate tax". So the people who invented the term did so to use emotionally loaded terms instead of the dictionary term in an attempt to bias the discussion.

And yes I know you feel strongly. I probably would too in your situation. But kindly read up on the perspective behind the opposite argument.

Victor.

-- My CD. Use coupon code "macjams" on BandCamp.


 
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Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 12:21 PM CDT

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VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2811
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Occupy MacJams
Saturday, October 29 2011 @ 12:26 PM CDT

Quote by: -Harold-
Quote by: VicDiesel
It's a cheap attempt to make discussion impossible.

Victor.

Thanks, Victor



I'm sorry. You caught my post before I could make an edit to state my meaning more precisely and less personally. I'll take 3 deep breaths next time.

I hope you'll still read that link.

Victor.

-- My CD. Use coupon code "macjams" on BandCamp.