Re:Led Zepplin theft
Monday, July 02 2012 @ 12:48 PM CDT

Quote by: dimm witness I love this stuff! jake holmes let dazed and confused go for decades then made a half hearted attempt I think on advice of friends/family members to recoup some royalties. he ended up successful in his own right and took the high road I love black mountainside and all the versions of the fair song. there are several versions on macjams :-) I made one too! yup jimmy lifted the particular arrangement as far as I know he got permission from spirit to use taurus as the basis for stairway also you need lovin by humble pie (or were they still small faces!) did become whole lotta love I read steve marriott was shocked and surprised to hear a different version of the song come over the radio! robert plant constantly lifted familiar blues lyrics -- familiar to blues aficianados :-) a case can be made as with the stones and yardbirds et al zep popularized blues majorly and expanded the audience significantly :-) looks like in retrospect jimmy considered it expedient to skip permission and citation and just release the stuff and see what would happen. many of the songs share credit and royalties after lawsuits. several ways to look at why zep did it and with what motivation and intent. I see them as honoring the songs, and agree they needed to share credit and royalties from the outset. they didn't but the songs remain just the same :-) and I am very glad zeppelin played and sang the way they did when they did!

I'm with you Dim, I still love their music stolen or not. I have ever only heard this side of the issue. I would really love to hear "the rest of the story"... Paul Harvey is dead so can I use that?? Or will Jr. sue me?? ;P

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Monday, July 02 2012 @ 05:03 PM CDT

every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Monday, July 02 2012 @ 08:23 PM CDT

Yes but some artists and poets end up with millions while some everyday thieves get sued into bankruptcy by the record company.

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Monday, July 02 2012 @ 10:50 PM CDT

Quote by: bronco Yes but some artists and poets end up with millions while some everyday thieves get sued into bankruptcy by the record company.

Like I said

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Monday, July 02 2012 @ 11:18 PM CDT

Quote by: egobandit every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief

willing to bet that the old blues guys stole all of the stuff from older blues guys that no one had heard of.

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Tuesday, July 03 2012 @ 01:19 AM CDT

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Tuesday, July 03 2012 @ 10:54 AM CDT

Quote by: michael2 Quote by: egobandit every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief willing to bet that the old blues guys stole all of the stuff from older blues guys that no one had heard of.

You are right to a certain extent. But there is a difference between learning from, being influenced by and emulating to actually stealing whole songs or lyrics word for word. When I do a cover of an old blues song I acknowledge that it is not mine.

But have I written blues songs that use the same chord progressions but with original lyrics and melodies? Certainly. that's emulation but not stealing. You can't copyright a chord progression but you can lyrics.

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Tuesday, July 03 2012 @ 12:03 PM CDT

Quote by: bronco Quote by: michael2 Quote by: egobandit every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief willing to bet that the old blues guys stole all of the stuff from older blues guys that no one had heard of. You are right to a certain extent. But there is a difference between learning from, being influenced by and emulating to actually stealing whole songs or lyrics word for word. When I do a cover of an old blues song I acknowledge that it is not mine. But have I written blues songs that use the same chord progressions but with original lyrics and melodies? Certainly. that's emulation but not stealing. You can't copyright a chord progression but you can lyrics.

Your right I was just expressing my view through a wide spectrum, the best we can do as humans is copy what is already out there in nature, so who is the originator. Like Michael
said how far back does a blues riff go could have been some cat back in ancient Assyria
As far as chord progressions and lyrics your right again
but lets not forget its all been done before

BTW as far as Zep is concerned credit should have been given where credit is due
but on the flip side Jimmy Page was smart enough to know where all the best stuff was and to give it a fresh face to be passed on to newer generations so at the same time there is good in what has been done
the old blues could have been lost to future generations
but I would think even that could be debatable

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Tuesday, July 03 2012 @ 02:46 PM CDT

Quote by: michael2 Quote by: egobandit every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief willing to bet that the old blues guys stole all of the stuff from older blues guys that no one had heard of.

I want in on that action lol very good point Michael

Re:Led Zepplin theft
Tuesday, July 03 2012 @ 10:08 PM CDT

Quote by: bronco Quote by: michael2 Quote by: egobandit every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief willing to bet that the old blues guys stole all of the stuff from older blues guys that no one had heard of. You are right to a certain extent. But there is a difference between learning from, being influenced by and emulating to actually stealing whole songs or lyrics word for word. When I do a cover of an old blues song I acknowledge that it is not mine. But have I written blues songs that use the same chord progressions but with original lyrics and melodies? Certainly. that's emulation but not stealing. You can't copyright a chord progression but you can lyrics.

i get your point and agree that zeppelin stole heavily. but I still think their influences probably stole as well. I imagine if you were to go through a catalog of every old folk tune, slave song and spiritual, you would see where the roots of the "original" songs were from. i believe that it is human nature to rework things and especially in rock music: you steal bits and make them your own. but to be fair: you should pay when you borrow too literally.