Re:Jesus Christ dead, age approx. 32
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 06:36 PM CDT

Quote by: Ibstrat I would sincerely like to believe- if someone could answer these questions it would really help. 1. If God is a caring benevolent God why does he condemn non-believers to eternal pain and torture?(Including millions who are born into other religions or were born before the advent of Christianity) 2.Why did he pick one spot on earth to send his son to spread the word(pretty inefficient way to spread information) again condemning everyone else on earth to damnation? 3. If everything in the bible is the word of God, why do we not stone non-believers to death and exactly follow his rules regarding food and animal sacrifice? 4.Why are the above rules routinely ignored but homosexuality is an abomination? I'm not putting down Christian belief- these questions (And others) have always bugged me. If someone has answers- thanks!

Mark, let me take a shot at your questions. I will say that some of my answers may be hard to accept. I still struggle with the some of the same questions at times. But I know that God does not require me to answer every possible objection to the Christian faith before I can trust Christ for salvation. There are some questions we just can’t answer satisfactorily on this side of eternity.

Having said that, let me plow ahead:
1. If God is a caring benevolent God why does he condemn non-believers to eternal pain and torture? (Including millions who are born into other religions or were born before the advent of Christianity)

God does not owe anyone salvation. Salvation is a gift. We are all sinful, and we all deserve condemnation, not the gift of salvation. As Paul put it in Romans 3: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” If God had not sent a Savior, no one could charge him with injustice. As R. C. Sproul has put it, the amazing thing is not that God does not save everyone, but that God saves anyone at all. Some are saved, some are lost. Some receive mercy, some receive justice. But no one receives injustice from God.

2.Why did he pick one spot on earth to send his son to spread the word (pretty inefficient way to spread information) again condemning everyone else on earth to damnation?

Another very good question. It is true that millions of people throughout history have lived and died with no exposure to the Bible or to Christian missionaries. What is their fate? How will God judge them? Some Christians would say that perhaps God saves them through their religion. As long as you’re a good Hindu, and Hinduism is all you know, then that’s good enough for God. Others will say that God gives them a second chance after death, and exposes these people to the Gospel, and then lets them decide. And there are still other ways that people attempt to “get God off the hook,” so to speak. But I think these approaches really do not do justice to the reality of the situation. In the Biblical scheme of things, only Christians are saved. For His own reasons, God has chosen not to reveal himself in a saving manner to some people. As I stated above, God does not owe salvation to anyone. A good book I recently read on this question is “Faith Comes by Hearing: A Response to Inclusivism” by Christopher W. Morgan and Robert A. Peterson.

The reformer Martin Luther was bothered by this. In his book, “The Bondage of the Will,” Luther wrote about the ‘three lights:’ the light of nature, the light of grace, and the light of glory. In the light of nature, we see that the wicked prosper, and the godly suffer. It seems unfair. But in the light of grace, we see that in the next life, God will make all things right. But even now, in the light of grace, we see that God saves some and not others. It seems unfair. But, Luther reasoned, in the light of glory (that is, once we are in heaven), we will understand better why God does the things He does. So even though it may seem unfair to us now, with our limited understanding, we can trust God that He is acting in a just manner. “Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” Abraham asked God rhetorically. (Genesis 18:25)

3. If everything in the bible is the word of God, why do we not stone non-believers to death and exactly follow his rules regarding food and animal sacrifice?

Those rules applied to the nation of Israel while God ruled them in a theocracy. We are not under that government. And as Paul has said, “We are not under law but under grace.” Romans 6:14

4.Why are the above rules routinely ignored but homosexuality is an abomination?
Homosexuality is also discussed in the New Testament, especially in Romans 1. In this chapter, homosexual behavior is deemed sinful.

Mark, I hope these answers are helpful to you. I would recommend a book by R. C. Sproul called “The Holiness Of God,” which deals with some of the same questions.

Re:Jesus Christ dead, age approx. 32
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 06:45 PM CDT

My very humble point is ... the matter of (you believe)
is the matter of you set yourself in a system of morals
what how why those concern YOU and nobody else ... to
proof to you whats my faith is none sense and you tried
so hard to proof me wrong is none sense as well ... !

on my holly book ..I v learned these verses ...'and those
for those who listen and sit and speak ...'

as Rebsie remark .. why you concerned about my faith ...??
why you want everyone like you ?

we all can be like each other in one thing ..we are good
to each other ... !

cos we are alike in nature !

Re:Jesus Christ dead, age approx. 32
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 06:56 PM CDT

Quote by: LunaTrick You are trying to find an excuse to avoid considering my position, which sadly is the classic response. Kant, Kierkegaard, and apologists like Lewis were all "christian" so therefore my sources aren't wholly 'secular' as you claim. Secondly, I have considered your position and read your bible end to end, despite my problems with it's authenticity. In order to reject a belief, one has to be familiar with the tenets of it. The problem with a response like yours is that you are just not willing to entertain other notions even as hypothets... and even for a moment. If you were to look at everything surrounding your faith with a spirit of intellectual curiosity - and your faith survived - I would respect that. But to put the blinkers on in blind subscription is not to test it at all. I chose to eat from the tree of knowledge and simply cannot worship any god who would forbid such a thing to his creation!

Sorry, no excuses as yours, simply reasons. Clearly you have a different perspective, and feel justified.

Re:Jesus Christ dead, age approx. 32
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 07:04 PM CDT

Quote by: Rocha Malhada Quote by: LunaTrick You are trying to find an excuse to avoid considering my position, which sadly is the classic response. Kant, Kierkegaard, and apologists like Lewis were all "christian" so therefore my sources aren't wholly 'secular' as you claim. Secondly, I have considered your position and read your bible end to end, despite my problems with it's authenticity. In order to reject a belief, one has to be familiar with the tenets of it. The problem with a response like yours is that you are just not willing to entertain other notions even as hypothets... and even for a moment. If you were to look at everything surrounding your faith with a spirit of intellectual curiosity - and your faith survived - I would respect that. But to put the blinkers on in blind subscription is not to test it at all. I chose to eat from the tree of knowledge and simply cannot worship any god who would forbid such a thing to his creation! Sorry, no excuses as yours, simply reasons. Clearly you have a different perspective, and feel justified.

DANGER, WILL (Harold) ROBINSON!

I strongly urge you to listen to listen to this:
http://ca.music.yahoo.com/track/1635162

before debating Lunatrick on HIS terms......



Bless you, dears.

Re:Jesus Christ dead, age approx. 32
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 07:14 PM CDT

I rarely comment on threads like this. But here goes:

Why complicate things? It's pretty simple. Here's the general outline:

you don't exist

you are concieved

you are born

you grow up

you create children

you raise children

you live a while longer

you start falling apart

you die

you don't exist

Seems pretty simple to me. The important thing is what you make of your life and how you interact with others. All the rest is totally over-thinking the thing.

When we see someone else die - it reminds us that we will die someday.

EDIT: Not to leave the impression I have no feelings about the big picture, my latest song "Bye Bye" deals exactly with my feelings about life and death http://www.macjams.com/song/53945

* Post Removed *
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 07:19 PM CDT

* This message has been removed *

* Post Removed *
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 07:22 PM CDT

* This message has been removed *

* Post Removed *
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 07:22 PM CDT

* This message has been removed *

* Post Removed *
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 07:23 PM CDT

* This message has been removed *

Re:Jesus Christ dead, age approx. 32
Wednesday, July 01 2009 @ 07:23 PM CDT

Quote by: bud ...the big question. Who - what - where is God?

Some of us have no God. But for those that do, my theory is that God resides within humans, taking a different form for each person. Whether or not that theory is "true", it has a lot of explanatory power so I'm sticking with it


Edit: By the way, that George Carlin bit is great!