Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Saturday, July 25 2009 @ 09:11 AM CDT

Quote by: alley-oop Quote by: pablatone If there is no God, then there is no reason to get upset about the suffering in the world, it's just the way things are, get over it. So the only thing an atheist can to say to the mother of a dying child is "sorry, that's just your bad luck." The atheist is not exempt from giving an answer to the problem of evil. The answers Jesus gives to the core questions in life make more sense than anything Dawkins has proposed. And He offers hope, something a materialist cannot do. I cannot understand why you'd think I cannot have compassion, even though I live without worshiping a god? Come on, you think I'm not effected by the sorrow of the mother whose child is dying? These thing you speak of, compassion, suffering; believing in God and Jesus have nothing to do with having or not having empathy for the pain of this world. I think you are ignorant, or, you enjoy making provocative statements. Either way, your comments dehumanize people like myself, alluding we are 'less than' or incapable of basic humanity. You act in an evil way. I don't this is what Jesus taught. You use biblical reference to set yourself above others. This in itself is a root cause of much atrocity throughout history. I have no respect for your statement.

You've completely misunderstood what I've said. Of course you can have compassion. I have many atheist and agnostic friends and they are kind, honest, and loving people, I would trust them with my life.

But apart from being there for me (which is priceless and welcome)there isn't much they can do. What would you say to me if I was dying? I would say to you that death is not the end, that there are greater things ahead for you, things you cannot imagine.

I am not meaning to dehumanize you, and I apologize if it sounds that way. Nor do I feel that I am in any way a better, more righteous, nicer, wiser, or better looking person than you or anyone else on this planet. I know me too well to entertain any such illusions.

But I think my statement is a valid one.

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Saturday, July 25 2009 @ 10:10 AM CDT

Quote by: ManateeChili did you write this article or just copy and paste it? http://www.2think.org/hii/bible_cr.shtml

It was probably a slip - I didn't think it sounded like Daniel's writing when I first read it anyway.

It IS interesting to know the source (although I could not readily discover the author's name), an article written on a web bulletin board apparently in defense of the book of Mormon against Christian fundamentalist accusations of inconsistencies in that book. As the Morman faith supports the story of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, it seems a bit like "shooting oneself in the foot" - coming from an article apparently titled "A critique of the Bible from an educated Mormon"

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Saturday, July 25 2009 @ 10:28 PM CDT

* This message has been removed *

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Monday, July 27 2009 @ 01:34 PM CDT

Deleted!

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Monday, July 27 2009 @ 01:42 PM CDT

Deleted!

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Monday, July 27 2009 @ 02:29 PM CDT

...No matter what belief ...God believes in Us.... thats MY belief & I'm still alive ..Thank You Lord ! : D

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Monday, July 27 2009 @ 02:32 PM CDT

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Monday, July 27 2009 @ 03:05 PM CDT

we cannot judge although we are good at thinking we can ...

..embaressment is about the same thing to me... sometimes when we feel embarresed , it means we see ourselves as superior the other person - without thinking of it -

It's the Gaypride festival in Sweden now : D abit off topic as usual..
& Iran - politics & religion don't always mix well thats for sure !

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Monday, July 27 2009 @ 03:19 PM CDT

First time I saw this was here, sometime ago - was it be Slimmie who put it here i don't remember ..
( :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgk9ouBuj-4&feature=related


Enjoy ... embed enabled

Re:J.C.Thread.Won't.Die
Monday, July 27 2009 @ 04:06 PM CDT

Quote by: Calchas Quote by: alley-oop Quote by: pablatone If there is no God, then there is no reason to get upset about the suffering in the world, it's just the way things are, get over it. So the only thing an atheist can to say to the mother of a dying child is "sorry, that's just your bad luck." The atheist is not exempt from giving an answer to the problem of evil. The answers Jesus gives to the core questions in life make more sense than anything Dawkins has proposed. And He offers hope, something a materialist cannot do. I cannot understand why you'd think I cannot have compassion, even though I live without worshiping a god? Come on, you think I'm not effected by the sorrow of the mother whose child is dying? These thing you speak of, compassion, suffering; believing in God and Jesus have nothing to do with having or not having empathy for the pain of this world. I think you are ignorant, or, you enjoy making provocative statements. Either way, your comments dehumanize people like myself, alluding we are 'less than' or incapable of basic humanity. You act in an evil way. I don't this is what Jesus taught. You use biblical reference to set yourself above others. This in itself is a root cause of much atrocity throughout history. I have no respect for your statement. Buck up friend! Historically, Buddhism has demonstrated a hell of a lot more compassion than Christianity has, and there is no personal god in that faith. Indeed, the only world religion that has been more bloody than Christianity is Islam. Of course, the purely secular faiths of Marxism and Maoism have---in the relatively short time they have existed---shed far more innocent blood than all the world's religions past and present combined (with the POSSIBLE exception of the Mayans). But that's another issue for another thread... As a former Christian, I'm embarrassed but not at all surprised by pablatone's remarks. A compassionate person will be compassionate no matter what kind of belief system is adhered to, and the uncaring and/or predatory person will remain such irrespective of the belief system. History bears this out in spades! As I see it, the problem is and has ever been FUNDAMENTALISM, whether sacred or secular. I have come to believe it is the only true idolatry. I think I might call my next album project "Planet of Fanatics!" Ha ha... Be well ALL!

Mike... I think you (and alley-oop) are understanding pabltone incorrectly and missing his point. What pablo is doing, it seems to me, is positing (as a point of debate) that IF there is no God then there is only matter, therefore no ultimate right and wrong, good and evil. So philosophically if there is no God, then there is no logical basis for anyone to "get upset about the suffering in the world." And for the one who declares there is no God then his only logical option is to "get over it" because this is the random chance material world that has developed and that he is a product of. It simply IS. Not right nor wrong, good or bad.

Again, pablo's examples of the atheist's thinking are just that. Examples of how one, who holds there is no God, logically would be constrained to respond when faced with suffering. Suffering just IS. There is no ultimate basis to judge something as a tragedy if there is not an immaterial reality or norm by which to judge. If there is compassion in an all material world, it is ultimately the result of chemical/biological processes in the person. Those reactions have no intrinsic meaning if matter is all that exists...

Pablo's point, I think, is that of course everyone is capable of compassion, love, and good deeds... atheist, and believer in what ever religion you want to pick. I think pablo might say (and I do say) that it is because there is a God, the Creator, that whether acknowledging him or not, nonetheless all of mankind is graced with these very human characteristics of compassion, love, and a desire to do good.

I certainly don't think pablo was indicting "non-believers" as incapable of caring, compassion, etc. Far from it.

Now that I have chimed in with my thoughts on pablo's thoughts, maybe he will verify or adjust my understanding.

D