Re:What I've noticed lately
Monday, December 01 2008 @ 03:01 AM CST

One thing I have noticed is that there are some *new* members who upload a lot of songs but don't spend much time commenting on others. That bugs me - and adds to the' why bother' mentality.

Also, the new(ish) site design isn't helping IMHO. The sample music button on the Music page makes it too easy to listen to ten seconds of a track and decide you don't like it - then to not leave a post. In the *old* days if you bothered to click on someone's page and start listening to the whole song you were more likely to leave a comment. Also, the spirit of 'criticism' has gone as well (see many previous posts about voting/critiquing etc!) - there's less talk about what's bad in peoples songs and way too much back-slapping. I LIKE CRITICISM much more than getting a paltry six comments on a new song!

Also, once your song drops off the first page of the Music page you're history (it seems)!

As for the original point about replying to comments - well - it's just impossible. I think if you are adding to the musical discussion (as it relates to your song) e.g what equipment/software/instruments were used then go for it - but just to say 'thanks' seems a bit of a waste of time. Let's get back to discussing the music in more detail - and get back to *learning* more about what we're all doing. This is - as many people have already said - a great hobby to have, but there's no reason why we can't all get better at it, through constructive criticism, interaction and friendly banter - not just ego-massaging.

Re:What I've noticed lately
Monday, December 01 2008 @ 06:59 AM CST

Quote by: rover101 ... As for the malaise, I suspect it has much to do with the charts being off the main pages....petty and meaningless they may be, but they spark a bit of competition

Bookmark this page to get the old charts:

http://macjams.com/new/

that's what I use lately.

Re:What I've noticed lately
Monday, December 01 2008 @ 12:02 PM CST

Quote by: dolby In the *old* days if you bothered to click on someone's page and start listening to the whole song you were more likely to leave a comment. Also, the spirit of 'criticism' has gone as well (see many previous posts about voting/critiquing etc!) - there's less talk about what's bad in peoples songs and way too much back-slapping. I LIKE CRITICISM much more than getting a paltry six comments on a new song!

Very well said, sir!

Re:What I've noticed lately
Monday, December 01 2008 @ 06:47 PM CST

Quote by: SmokeyVW Quote by: rover101 ... As for the malaise, I suspect it has much to do with the charts being off the main pages....petty and meaningless they may be, but they spark a bit of competition Bookmark this page to get the old charts: http://macjams.com/new/ that's what I use lately.

I know how to find the charts, the point is they're not in everyone's face anymore, and you know that ol' saying, 'out of sight, out of mind.'

Re:What I've noticed lately
Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 10:04 AM CST

As a *new* member here... I can add a few comments if you please. I hope it is helpful.

I continue to read posts about how new members aren't very good/nice/whatever. Bluntly, this doesn't make me feel very welcome. I don't really understand why this is happening. The whole vibe here seems to be going downhill. The old guys are all talking about how much it sucks now and how the new guys are all losers. Are we? I know I'm being blunt I hope that I'm at least being clear. I know you are saying much more than that, but I have to say that this kind of talk kind of hits where it hurts if you know what I mean. OK maybe I haven't learned all the etiquette yet. That's ok, I understand. This site is actually STILL very personal as internet sites go, and etiquette here seems to be a bigger deal than in many other forums. That's actually pretty neat. But it's harder to integrate as a newcomer. Cut us some slack!

I am still trying to learn the ropes. I have never seen another site like this. I'm still forming an idea of how it works and what it is. I'm trying to learn what the people here are like, what they are up to, and what is expected of me. I'm not the guy that comes crashing into a party and makes a big scene, generally. I slip in at the back and sip my water and see what's going on. Maybe after a few months of that I figure out it's not my kind of party and I move on. Or maybe I start to really understand and respect folks and I make some new friends. Either way, it doesn't happen overnight. Give it some time you know?

Jiguma, I hope things are going well with your new amp purchase. I notice you comment about only 200 and some-odd hits on your new song. Wow that's a lot man. As a new guy I have wondered sometimes if anybody at all is listening. I don't know if the music sucks, if I have done something wrong, or if people are just busy and I'm a drop in the pond here. I am sure the number of members is growing, and that is bound to cause some issues like that.

The website issues I think are real. I don't understand all the talk about the "old MJ" and the "new MJ" and all that. To me it's all just links to pages. I DO notice that there are a few bugs. Click this or that and you get a message that doesn't make sense -- obviously it's a bug. Sometimes you get very little but the main menu and you have to click around a bit to get where you were going (or use browser back, which can do odd things, like a double post and such). I DO notice that there are a lot of songs. Each day there are more than enough to scroll off the page. Still, with potentially a hundred or more regulars, you'd think each song might get a little attention. I am not sure yet what to think. I know I'm a nobody at this point so I am not surprised when nobody notices what I'm doing. But as a guy wanting some feedback and some confirmation that I'm not crazy... again silence is hard to read. So it's a problem maybe. Not sure. Maybe it's just me, or maybe the site design is not working well.

There is some question about whether people are taking enough time to be courteous. You know that's somewhat of a choice issue. We all have time to do things in our lives, and we run out at some point. In an impersonal world where people zip about in their cars (little isolation boxes as mentioned in one post about motorcycle riders) and curse each other and cut each other out of opportunities instead of being courteous, the internet is an extension of that. Some people zip about on the internet and curse this and blast that, taking what they can and posting whatever they want. I have found MJ to be very much more like a gathering place for a real community. Kind of like the bar on "Cheers". Some old friends, some that come and go, and always a kind of intrinsic respect and sense of community. Wow that's cool. And it's right and important to protect that. It's a big deal. But on the other hand, sometimes we do get busy. This summer I got into a situation where some work got behind schedule. I had no control over it. But other dependent jobs went behind it, and are squeezed on the other end by the weather. Luckily winter is being a little slow to come. I worked almost every daylight hour over Thanksgiving holiday. Part of me wanted to spend some time here on MJ, listening to some new songs, and responding to the posts about mine. But it wasn't happening. The REAL ME was taking painkiller and putting on an extra layer of clothing. Not enough daylight between now and THE END of fall you know? So Smokey, you're wrong man. Sometimes, people are that busy. I haven't touched my guitar in over two months. Not going to happen.

I am really sorry that some of you are talking about losing enthusiasm. Constructively, since you've voiced that concern here on the forum, let me offer my desire to help. I do want to, really. Suggestions? One idea that strikes me is somebody could create an "unofficial FAQ" maybe? Just a forum post like this one, but one that we could refer to for etiquette rules and such. This would be handy maybe. I'm not the guy to write it though.

What I really want to know is... why are we posting like this? Something's wrong folks. I guess that is the obvious. What are we going to do about it? As a newcomer I'd like to look to the old guard for direction. But the old guard is talking about stepping down.

I feel like the guy who is appointed CEO of a dieing company so that SOMEBODY will take the fall. While I'm celebrating my appointment, the owners are divesting and watching me fall.

Don't let that happen k?

Let me say some positive stuff. The interviews have been cool. Thanks Mark for doing that. The site in general is just "neat" what else can I say. Thanks to the folks that have reached out to the new guys like me. Thanks for the time and the interaction. I know it's not free for any of us to give of ourselves here. I hope this post is useful, honestly. Responses welcome. I meant to be kind and thoughtful.

Re:What I've noticed lately
Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 11:45 AM CST

Quote by: chronologic I am still trying to learn the ropes. I have never seen another site like this. I'm still forming an idea of how it works and what it is. I'm trying to learn what the people here are like, what they are up to, and what is expected of me. I'm not the guy that comes crashing into a party and makes a big scene, generally. I slip in at the back and sip my water and see what's going on. Maybe after a few months of that I figure out it's not my kind of party and I move on. Or maybe I start to really understand and respect folks and I make some new friends. Either way, it doesn't happen overnight. Give it some time you know?

Thanks chronologic for the well-considered feedback from the perspective of a (relatively) new member. I think many of the present "woes" at MacJams can be boiled-down to an increase in the "noise to signal" ratio. There are many factors that influence this, including factors that relate to music and internet traffic that have nothing to do with internal MacJams culture or functionality. No use pointing fingers or wringing hands.

To all those who wish to engender a renewed spirit of music appreciation, I have a suggestion for you.

Back in 2007 I flirted with the idea of a genre appreciation blog. This would have involved bi-weekly reviews of electronic/industrial music at MacJams. As is true for many of my project ideas, I realized I wouldn't have the time to maintain it with any degree of faithfulness:

Chikoppi's Sine Posts

If you want to raise awareness for commenting and music appreciation then you have to start by raising visibility. I suggest concerned members start a blog dedicated to a musical niche. Maybe invite some like-minded friends to join you.

I'd be willing to re-start my Sine Posts project if a few MacJammers would volunteer to contribute as authors. I believe I can update the blog settings to allow others to log-in and post.

Re:What I've noticed lately
Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 12:56 PM CST

Quote by: chronologic As a *new* member here... I can add a few comments if you please. I hope it is helpful. I continue to read posts about how new members aren't very good/nice/whatever. Bluntly, this doesn't make me feel very welcome... Responses welcome. I meant to be kind and thoughtful.

Funny, being an OLDer member here (4 plus years)... I feel the same way you do.

I almost ALWAYS leave thoughtful, helpful, critical feedback as a comment on songs I listen to, I try to be helpful and welcoming. I try to reply to EVERY comment on my songs in a personal way.

So imagine my dismay when I hear a number of people here saying "NOBODY leaves thoughtful critiques any more". Really? I guess my voice is not heard, or useful.

Once somebody starts yelling "Fire" in the movie theater, it is hard to regain sanity and calm and have people notice that there's really no fire.

I'm (once again) quietly waiting this one out, and continuing to leave hopefully-useful comments, be helpful and upbeat in the forums, and smile. I am glad to hear you speak up and do the same.

ttfn,
Drakonis

Re:What I've noticed lately
Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 01:05 PM CST

Quote by: drakonis ...continuing to leave hopefully-useful comments, be helpful and upbeat in the forums, and smile. I am glad to hear you speak up and do the same.

My usual MO. I got in a cranky, mildly despondent mood one night and set off the most popular thread I've ever started. My usually happy posts slip through the cracks so I never thought this would create the stir it has.

Kind of embarrassing actually. Hope no newcomers feel unwelcome because of it. This place rocks, and it needs you just as much as anyone else here.

Re:What I've noticed lately
Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 01:12 PM CST

No need to feel embarrassed - it's been a really interesting debate.

Re:What I've noticed lately
Tuesday, December 02 2008 @ 10:40 PM CST

Quote by: rover101 Quote by: SmokeyVW Quote by: rover101 ... As for the malaise, I suspect it has much to do with the charts being off the main pages....petty and meaningless they may be, but they spark a bit of competition Bookmark this page to get the old charts: http://macjams.com/new/ that's what I use lately. I know how to find the charts, the point is they're not in everyone's face anymore, and you know that ol' saying, 'out of sight, out of mind.'

I see. Absolutely, I agree. Maybe Simon will switch it back?