Re:Loops vs Creativity
Sunday, September 12 2004 @ 11:14 AM CDT

Actually, I basically refer to my response in Alimar's forum. I think you have to go to how "musician" is defined. According to the dictionary, a musician includes anyone who composes or play music. That makes Alimar a composer and therefore a musician. I admit, my sense of what a musician is was limited in the same way I'm gathering you interpret the term until I looked it up, to find out what the real answer is. Alimar is not a performer (not yet), per se, but he is most definitely an accomplished composer, and by extension a musician. Try to think of defining less in the context of a "rock star" or pop musician. There are plenty of composers who could not play their own compositions. I'm thinking of classical music for example, where the separation between composer and performer is cleaner, and where both are fully considered musicians. Know what I mean?

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Sunday, September 12 2004 @ 11:23 AM CDT

OKay... you drew me back into this thread. Many accomplished "musicians" only "write". They do not perform. They are still musicians. If you can "think" a melody... you ARE a musician. The fact that one cannot "play" ones compositions... does not mean they are not musicians. Musician DOES NOT necessarilly predicate PERFORMER.

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Sunday, September 12 2004 @ 03:09 PM CDT

Quote by: Alimar OKay... you drew me back into this thread. Many accomplished "musicians" only "write". They do not perform. They are still musicians. If you can "think" a melody... you ARE a musician. The fact that one cannot "play" ones compositions... does not mean they are not musicians. Musician DOES NOT necessarilly predicate PERFORMER.

yes, alimar!
think of it this way. there was once an elderly woman, an artist, a sculptor, who realised her gigantic ideas through a bunch of younger, buff (or whatever) men making it and putting it together. she couldn't do it herself, she merely knew what she wanted it to look like and directed them as such. like a director/writer of a film - the actors don't write it, they perform what someone else has written but each one will do it differently. ok so i have kind of two different ideas going on here... some people write but not perform, and others perform but don't write. they call people like britney spears *gag* and christina aguilera *spit* "artists" not musicians. "artists." they're not bloody artists!!!!! they're just singers... but i digress... i think it's amazing that someone who can't play an instrument can make such amazing work. obviously, alimar, you have a natural aptitude for musical COMPOSITION and ARRANGEMENT even if playing an instrument is/was out of your league. then there are people who can play but can't write... hehe all my elementary school music classes where my classmates learned to play the xylophone but couldn't improv for sht.

woah that was weird, this doors song uses the same drum pattern/rhythm/sound as my most recent loop-based track. and the loop is actually by fat boy slim. so? i made it sound like an "Irishman in Cuba!"

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Sunday, September 12 2004 @ 07:31 PM CDT

For any rule anyone wants to make up there is an exception or 30.

ronnielong: Lou Reed performs live and writes music. As far as I know, none of the compostions on Metal Machine Music were ever performed live. Just one example, but I think you get my meaning.

I dont claim to be a musician, but I've been making music of one kind or another both live and recorded for about 20 years. Right now I dont think there is one word in English which describes people who make music which is based on assembly of pre existing elements. Anyone care to correct me?

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Sunday, September 12 2004 @ 10:35 PM CDT

Quote by: nobunaga Right now I dont think there is one word in English which describes people who make music which is based on assembly of pre existing elements. Anyone care to correct me?

Uh, yeah: producer.

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Sunday, September 12 2004 @ 11:15 PM CDT

SmartAss: I see where you are coming from, but disagree. I considered Engineer, Producer, DJ, Remixer, Sound Designer, Arranger, Composer and a few other things, but I dont think any one word covers all of what can be done with software like GB.

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Monday, September 13 2004 @ 12:38 AM CDT

maybe i'm confused with the terminology then. i thought a producer pretty much did everything you list except compose. he/she/it engineers, (re)mixes, sound designs, arranges, and a few other things. so, one word, at least the best one word, would seem to be producer. i think the best producers yield work that borders on outright composition. the more you do to change the original clips you're working with, the more you are blurring the line between producer and composer. anywhooo, getting back to the original topic of this thread some nearly 100 posts ago, i don't think anything should be capped by definition -- like creativity for using (presumably pre-recorded) loops, but know that once ya start using clips of other's musical writings, like gb's loops, yer certainly treading on thinner ice creatively, so maybe if ya hear some recognizable clip in your music that has been heard before in other people's work, ya might get bit in that category. and don't be offended by that; same thing holds true for folks that ain't using loops, or clips. (btw, i don't know about where the whole "dj" thing fits into this... )

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Monday, September 13 2004 @ 12:56 AM CDT

I saw some fellow on TV who used a bunch of balloons attached to different parts of his body to make a melody. There was some other guy who did it by hitting spoons against his cheeks. And, of course, my favorite is the woman in the evening dress who plays the glasses with varying amounts of water in them. Now those are REAL musicians!

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:05 AM CDT

ever hear of mr. methane? )

Re:Loops vs Creativity
Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:08 AM CDT

Quote by: mcsweb Actually, I basically refer to my response in Alimar's forum. I think you have to go to how "musician" is defined. According to the dictionary, a musician includes anyone who composes or play music. That makes Alimar a composer and therefore a musician. I admit, my sense of what a musician is was limited in the same way I'm gathering you interpret the term until I looked it up, to find out what the real answer is. Alimar is not a performer (not yet), per se, but he is most definitely an accomplished composer, and by extension a musician. Try to think of defining less in the context of a "rock star" or pop musician. There are plenty of composers who could not play their own compositions. I'm thinking of classical music for example, where the separation between composer and performer is cleaner, and where both are fully considered musicians. Know what I mean?

I get your point mcsweb..I guess both can be considered musicians...I have no problem with that......I never said Alimar wasn't a musician, I said he was not a PERFORMER. I too have known plenty of people who only compose and don't play live. That is why I asked you if being a musician required live performance. I guess not. But it does compel one to stay away from PRE packaged loops. Thats what started this whole thing anyway...right?

Quote by: nobunga ronnielong: Lou Reed performs live and writes music. As far as I know, none of the compostions on Metal Machine Music were ever performed live. Just one example, but I think you get my meaning.

I don't get what you are trying to say. I am not even sure what "Metal Machine Music" is.....sorry.

Quote by: Alimar Many accomplished "musicians" only "write". They do not perform. They are still musicians. If you can "think" a melody... you ARE a musician. The fact that one cannot "play" ones compositions... does not mean they are not musicians. Musician DOES NOT necessarilly predicate PERFORMER.

"If you can think a melody you ARE a musician"....well if you put it that way, then EVERYONE on EARTH can be considered a musician. I guess I can see that.... I agree, why not....I am just more impressed by the people who can play their own compositions. Thats all. Don't get me wrong, your stuff is great.... but it would be very cool to hear it live too.