SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW w kevmikwa

jiguma

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Description

Probably the less said about the inspiration for this the better - let's just say it's about how relationships change.

Mike Watkins (kevmikwa) again contributes drums, and I am really grateful I found him on MJ. I think our styles work pretty well together - but the distance between us might just rule out a band :) Anne, Mike plays tambourine on THIS one!

As usual, play it loud, but careful of the ears!

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Lyrics

So You’ll Know
© 2007 Neil Porter

You’ve been building me up
You’ve been putting me down
Stealing my dreams at night
I still love you my friend
But you’re messing me ‘round
Feeling beat up without a fight

You might think you know me
But you just can’t control me
That was long ago
Things aren’t like they were then
We’ll always be good friends
I’m just saying so you’ll know
Just saying so you’ll know
Saying so you’ll know
Just saying so you’ll know
Saying so you’ll know

It’s not real hard to see
You’re in need of repair
But I’m afraid I’m just not the guy
You lived life to the full
For such a long while
Maybe you’ve run out of time

You might think you know me
But you just can’t control me
That was long ago
Things aren’t like they were then
We’ll always be good friends
I’m just saying so you’ll know
Just saying so you’ll know
Saying so you’ll know
Just saying so you’ll know
Saying so you’ll know

When we were young
We were like brothers in arms
And brothers don’t always agree
Brothers in arms
Might have suited us then
But things might have changed for me

You might think you know me
But you just can’t control me
That was long ago
Things aren’t like they were then
We’ll always be good friends
I’m just saying so you’ll know
Just saying so you’ll know
Saying so you’ll know
Just saying so you’ll know
Saying so you’ll know

Song Stats

Hits: 2768
Comments: 52
Fans: 29
Plays: 425
Downloads: 48
Votes: 15
Uploaded: May 08, 2007 - 03:44:53 AM
Last Updated: Oct 15, 2007 - 03:44:40 PM Last Played: Oct 12, 2009 - 08:32:41 PM

Song License

Creative Commons License:
Attribution-NoDerivs-NonCommercial

Song Actions

Hardware:

Fender Telecaster
Seagull S6 acoustic
Fender Precision Bass
Rode NT3 mic
Behringer UB802 mixer/preamp
iMac G4
Mike's e-drums

Software:

Logic Express
Ozone 3

Comments

	said 929 days ago (May 8th, 2007)
	Your productions just keep getting better and better. Helped heaps by the very well played live drums. Top notch stuff.

dajama

dajama said 929 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Excellent sound
and nicely performed. The production is terrific. All the sounds are nicely balanced and beautifully mixed. Some really nice playing on here. It's also a really nice song and a really sad song! What can you do - these things happen? Sounds like a saga. I love the refrain "Just saying so you'll know". Very cool piece of work. Nice.

Check out my latest song called Across the Wire (MJRF)

VicDiesel

VicDiesel said 929 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Good sounding song
You don't say what the inspiration to this song is, I don't say what I think of the lyrics :-)

This song sounds very good. The vocals sit beautifully in the mix, and the whole mix is transparent yet feels like a whole.

Hm. Let me guess, the bass player is really a guitar player? Too many notes in some places, and it just doesn't drive the rhythm. He just plays along for the ride rather than being in the driver's seat. But that's my only negative point.

Check out my latest song called Desert Stars

jiguma

jiguma said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Thanks for the comment Vic
The guitarist is in fact a bass player :) Just my normal style of playing - most of my bass development happened when I was in a 5 piece acoustic band (think CSNY) with no drums, just congas. This resulted in a "different" bass style which I still have.
Glad you liked the song - I'll speak with the bass player ;)
Appreciate your comment.
Neil

---
SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins

Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

	said 929 days ago (May 8th, 2007)
	woah whopping good lyrics, neil! great melody, and you sing it like you mean it - harmos are well placed and right on. i really like your Big Sound. this is a beautfully woven work of sound. enjoyed my listen, anne

thetiler

thetiler said 929 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Really like this
and one of the reasons is that it is so personal. At least it seems to me. Nice counter melody vocal in special spots. Your style really seems to have matured from a year ago. Not that the previous was bad but that you seem to have more depth in your compositional structure. Like the nice base line 3/4 of the way through. The whole tune as a nice bassy and lower end tones. Hey, cool ending too.

Terrific!

Check out my latest song called The Bluebird Cafe (with two other guest)

kevmikwa

kevmikwa said 929 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Always a treat
It's always a treat when Neil invites me to lend drums to a song of his. The songs are always so very well crafted from the get-go and just catchy as all get out (IMHO). I can only hope he'll keep asking for drum help - those of you who are aware of his pencil-drumming skills know he's no slouch!

I respectfully disagree with VicDiesel regarding the bass. After reading it, I went back and listened very intently to the bass part, working the EQ in an attempt to isolate it. I didn't hear one passage that I thought was too "notey". I'd love to have the chance to jam sometime with Neil on bass. I do realize this is completely subjective.

I would say the drum level seems low on this one (except for the overheads), but that's probably what any drummer would say, really. It's probably my headphones anyway - I don't have a proper set of studio monitors yet.

I do still hear the warble effect (pitch correction?) on the left side backing vocals. I love the three-part harmony - it HAS to stay - but the warble is a bit distracting.

As always, Neil - thanks for letting me tag along again.

Check out my latest song called Piece of Heaven

jiguma

jiguma said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Cheers Mike
Thanks for the comment (not to mention the drumming). Glad you listened to the bass again - my feelings too, but if that's what Vic heard, no problem. I agree about the gain on the drums - I did a re-master just before posting, and I suspect that I lost some of your tracks' presence (especially the kick) in the process. I listened and listened for the warble, but could neverr find it - too close to the vox for oobjective listening perhaps, but I'll re-do that harmony for the CD.
Pleasure was all mine Mike - I suspect there'll be more for you ;)
Neil

---
SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins

Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

kevmikwa

kevmikwa said 914 days ago (May 23rd, 2007)

Whither warble?
Regarding the warble where you said you could never find it: as an experiment, solo out the backing vocal that is panned fairly hard left and starts around 1:51. Listen especially for the sustained long "o" sounds like ("ago" at 2:23, "know" at 2:36, "ago" at 4:00, as well as "know" at 4:12 and 4:18). That's when it's most noticeable to me.

You said you'd "re-do that harmony for the CD". I don't think the part needs a re-do ... I just suspect you thought it needed correction and I bet it's pretty darn good without it.

kevmikwa

Check out my latest song called Piece of Heaven

Macaudion

Macaudion said 929 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Now that was just plain good...
And they always are, it's just that this one was, especially tastey, Neil. The first tune to massage my being today, and I can imagine that this one will hang out and take me through the day. It's got quite the catchy, everything, to it but but those elements that are catchy, they are uncommon. How'd you do that... I'd been thinking, that I haven't taken the opportunity to tell you how your drum programing seems to get better by leaps and bounds, but then I read that ya had a little help from a friend. Exceellent help, I must say. And your help does need a tad bit more presence, but maybe this is about my headphones, too.

You guys done good! Thanks for sharing! I'm truly feeling a tinge of guilt for snatchn this one up for free.

Macca

Check out my latest song called 123 iGetU

jiguma

jiguma said 926 days ago (May 11th, 2007)

Hey Macca!!!!!!!
Good to hear from you - hope you're well. Have just done a remix using my new monitors, with the snare and kick much more prominent. Will post as soon as I am (and Mike is) happy with it. Mike does a lot more than just helping with drums. I said in a forum some time ago that Mike would be in my live MJ band of choice, and the only thing that has changed is that he's gotten better!
Thanks for dropping in and leaving your comment Macca - always appreciated.
Neil

---
SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins

Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

thoddi

thoddi said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Is that you in the picture?
Cool glasses and beard:)

You have proven to be not only a great bass player, but also a great guitarist. "The edge" in U2 will probably steel those hook-lines if he gets to hear them;)

Cool laid back drumming. Playing drums after a recording isn't the easiest thing to do. Well done kevmikwa! Do you record them with a mic on every drum, or just a couple of strategic placed ones?

Good song, and especially good chorus. I'm just saying so you know:)

Check out my latest song called Don't tell me what I can't w/KTB and Ingve

jiguma

jiguma said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

Yup!
That's me in 1976 in our trusty Fiat campervan in Europe somewhere. It's relevance is that friendships can last a long while through all sorts of stuff. I'd just "left" a band, and my musical career (unbeknown to me) was going to be over for 29 years. Lots of things change in that amount of time. The lyrics aren't directly related to the band thing though - just to the times.
Mike will probably respond to your drum question - he uses an e-kit which produces a number of midi tracks with access to a real collection of great sounds. I get an aif for each drum/cymbal which I then mix. For me, the quality (of the sounds and Mike's playing) is perfect.
Thanks for the guitar compliment Thor - appreciate that.
Neil

---
SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins

Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

	said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)
	Very nice Neil... ...and yes, you and Mike play well together. A little bit of a S&G feel here. Interesting background sounds in the instrumental breaks. Really good lyrics. The chorus just takes hold of the heart and gently squeezes... Be well friend! The Goodwillys have just arrived in town: http://www.macjams.com/song/31605

	said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)
	this is Superb! great drums laid down...kevmikwa! the whole track is really dynamite! excellent vocals... excellent everythiing! i will deifnately be by later to hear more stuff! cheers!

rtcooper	rtcooper said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)
	LONG LASHES The Friendship Fires that burn the Path and the Feet of those who Go, And, sometimes, even then, we cannot Know, Until Someone Says So. Doing and Saying the same time. Harmony perceived. Nicely Done, Neil Nicely Done. Very Best, Coop Check out my latest song called Intimate Anyway

Ed Hannifin

Ed Hannifin said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)

It's interesting to me,
...as someone who has run into "the bass conundrum", to hear the different things that people hear in the same mix and the same performance.

I listened to this, this morning, and came back to it tonight knowing that one of the things I wanted to say--again--is that I like and enjoy the way that you approach the bass, and continue to search for any of my tunes that I could beg you to apply it to. Said he, ending his sentence with a preposition...

I am also enjoying the layered instrumental bits, chiming the acoustic against the electric, especially at the break...

You and Jim Bouchard have me entirely convinced: cool people play Telecasters... And, it appears, cool people have Mike playing drums on their songs...

What I particularly like in the songwriting is that it does an unusual thing, which is to combine very definite strength with a touch of sadness or melancholy... A lot of melancholy songs end up just wallowing, while this captures a choice point that leads to strength...

Ed

Check out my latest song called Next Time Around (w/jiguma)

jiguma

jiguma said 927 days ago (May 9th, 2007)

The "bass conundrum"
The "bass con un drum" - is that kind of like a rhythm section? ;)

Thanks for the listen Ed - I always look forward to what you have to say. The strength in the song came as I was recording it. It was going to be a simple vox/acoustic guitar number, but as I was recording it I just got one good idea after another, and it built up a little . The song has certainly been therapeutic.

Anytime you want some bass, just let me know.

Cheers, Neil

---
SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins

Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

Vic Holman	Vic Holman said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)
	whatcha drinkin' there Neil? nice and smooth... like the stuff in that bottle. really liked your vocal harmonizing on top of this and i reeeeeally like that interesting lead guitar that you play 3 times here. i think you need 3 or more guitars playing that line. :-) Check out my latest song called November

jiguma	jiguma said 927 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	From memory .... .... it was a cheeky St Emillon - they were a lot cheaper then :) Thanks for the comment Vic. Neil --- SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

eleveneyes	eleveneyes said 928 days ago (May 8th, 2007)
	beautiful Great tune on every level. The song seems very personal but you keep it open enough for many to relate. Love the shifts in mood. especially like the chord change at the end of each 'saying so you'll know' sections. I'm just saying so you'll know. Check out my latest song called Here With You - Better MIX

alfalpha

alfalpha said 928 days ago (May 9th, 2007)

as per usual...
...the 'Jiguma standard's' bar has been raised again.
I particularly enjoy the guitar work in this song Neil, very colourful & very nicely balanced and the lyrics are so poignant.
The mix is excellent...(so what's new?!) ;) The ending is really effective with the 'fade' of that 'lingering' guitar line...another hit.
Cheers Neil!
Alf

Check out my latest song called Mania- w/DavisAmerica-The 'Sprout' Remix

Cori Ander	Cori Ander said 928 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	Wow Wow wow wow Musically GREAT! A real favourite! Top notch! I have said the like before on songs of yours Neil. You might think I have a habit of exaggerating. Wish I could have more nuance but your music hits me right in the middle. It goes straight to my mind and heart. I love it! Just love it! Check out my latest song called Guitar test — Martin CSN (Gerry Tolman Tribute)

Cori Ander	Cori Ander said 928 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	and.. .. and tell that tambourine player I love him :) --- Johannes Curry Check out my latest song called Guitar test — Martin CSN (Gerry Tolman Tribute)

echoroom

echoroom said 928 days ago (May 9th, 2007)

Hey Neil
What a great picture! And what a great song, really outsatnding on all fronts. The production is just fantastic, such a great live feel to everything.

it%u2019s not real hard to see
You%u2019re in need of repair .. is such a great, bitter line. This is such a side track, very melancholic. Top work, and your voice sounds great - warm, husky and resigned.

Steve

Check out my latest song called Deeper (w/t Racerat)

Leon

Leon said 928 days ago (May 9th, 2007)

Another Jiguma fav
Neil,

All your songs have so much humanity in them, but for me this one grabs the prize, for its catchy hook and mainstream appeal, and the message in its lyrics. Your voice is tinged with pain and grit, and you deliver the message very effectively. In terms of the instruments/music, man you are really scaling new heights of polish in every new song you post.

Check out my latest song called The Nightingale (music and lyrics by Oceans)

guitapick	guitapick said 928 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	Your lyrics... ...are a conversation in poetry...quite a talent there... ...fantastic musical interlude between verses...and then you add it to the chorus. Brilliant, man...brilliant! Ain't this somethin'....straight "A"s from this boy. Check out my latest song called Outside the Corral

TobinMueller	TobinMueller said 928 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	Yet another chapter Great writing. You are truly a wonderful songwriter. Check out my latest song called Forge A New Life (MJRF)

jiguma	jiguma said 923 days ago (May 13th, 2007)
	Coming from you .... .... this means a lot to me Tobin. Thanks for listening, glad you enjoyed the song. Neil --- SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

Scott Carmichael

Scott Carmichael said 927 days ago (May 9th, 2007)

Hey Neil
You're really puttin' out great trax these days...but of all your stuff that I've heard this is my absolute favorite... somehow writing about the real stuff, gets a song to cut through to the heart... your presentation is emotional and measured... you really stayed on measage... I love the changes through "Sayin' so you'll know" into the intrumental interlude... you wield your craft masterfully... I'm a big fan of letting the bass parts provide some of the hook to a song... so I respectfully disagree with Vic... there is so much to say about this work... the lyrics are really perfect... excellent protrayal of the wounds we take and the lines that we have to draw with friends if we are to remain friends... really capured well... there is still an ellement of care that comes through as well as a sadness... Real Good Art Neil

Check out my latest song called Good Morning

	said 927 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	Gosh.... love this guitar and bass and the easy laid back style. Another winner from the old man down under... good one Neil.

Myshkin	Myshkin said 927 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	Love it This is a really well put together song Neil. It has a stronger melody than your previous work and the little guitar parts break it up and hold it all together at the same time. Love the lyrics. I think most people can relate to them. Particularly if you've ever been in a band with friends. Top stuff. Check out my latest song called Iceland

Joe Brady	Joe Brady said 927 days ago (May 9th, 2007)
	Oh my................. Outstanding. I am very moved. Neil, this one just blows me away. Emotion flows out this like milk out of the carton. Well done my friend. Awesome production too. Check out my latest song called The Refugee Blues by Feter with Jiguma

perceptualvortex

perceptualvortex said 927 days ago (May 10th, 2007)

Great writing
Yeah, I can relate to the lyrics... to some friends over the years. Great songwriting, as usual; I'm always impressed with your ability to write these honest songs that are truly touching. Nice work with the drums, Mike! The mix sounds great, except that I wanted more punch and volume to the kick drum and snare. Excellent collab, guys!

Check out my latest song called Machine Man (w Beastie Boys)

jiguma	jiguma said 926 days ago (May 10th, 2007)
	Thanks David Yes, I let Mike down a little in the kick and snare departments - might put up a new mix in a week or so. Neil --- SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

stooey	stooey said 926 days ago (May 11th, 2007)
	Another gem! Thanks for sharing. Check out my latest song called Loop It Oldfieldlian

scratch_harris	scratch_harris said 925 days ago (May 11th, 2007)
	lovely... ...although I'd love to hear a fuck off loud, balls to the wall version. It's made for it really. Anthemic Stadiana. I'm writing this as I listen to it and it just gets better. Top Stuff Jiguma! Check out my latest song called Fire on the twenties

Peter Bauckham	Peter Bauckham said 924 days ago (May 12th, 2007)
	Excellent Really enjoying this one. First-class production and playing. The tune is very similar to Suzanne Vega's 'Cracking' (from her excellent first album). Thanks for sharing. Peter Check out my latest song called All The Same (CBGB) (Last Chance Challenge)

jiguma	jiguma said 924 days ago (May 12th, 2007)
	Thanks Peter Not sure I've heard that one by SV - will check it out. Cheers, Neil --- SAYING SO YOU'LL KNOW with Mike Watkins Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

apb

apb said 924 days ago (May 13th, 2007)

I find myself ..
.. in the same corner as Scott: in that this is for me
your best upload to date. It has just got all the jiggy elements 'just right'. You forget about production and just hear a fabulous song, delivered silkily. It's just the right key for you voice and harmonies, I had no sense of something 'higher' being missing as I've sometimes noted before in the absence of the mrs. doing b.vox.

Drums are totally fitting, excellently 'not over doing
things' stellar job from Mike. Great bass, guitars,
singing, lyrics, arrangement.

I hear a little Suzanne Vega too .. just a shade.

On the 3rd listen, really looking for any pointers ..
I think what the bass plays is fine, but would just
bring it down a smidgen overall and automate up some of those fine little flicks.

Check out my latest song called Misplaced

atonalis	atonalis said 924 days ago (May 13th, 2007)
	just passing through. don't know how i ended up on this track..... but it was a wonderful ride. great guitar layers. great songwriting. great feeling and emotion.....period. Check out my latest song called lit with a wet match.

mvh9591	mvh9591 said 923 days ago (May 13th, 2007)
	Very Nice ____ Neil I enjoyed this one very much. Your playing and mixing skills are masterful. Loved the Bass line in this one. Top notch playing. Thanks for sharing, mvh : ) Check out my latest song called Maggie Rodriguez tribute

Doadars Uncle	Doadars Uncle said 923 days ago (May 13th, 2007)
	Nice Touching. Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

Feter	Feter said 923 days ago (May 14th, 2007)
	You ll Know ...! the floating of the acoutics over the drivin drum so soothing very tastey neil ... it has wonderfull drama ..changes and feels here and there very filled the beyond back grounds and harmonies all so awesome ... well done my friend ....!! Check out my latest song called A Night With Feter feat'(Roxylee sloparts crissew johnwhitehead and Yamin AL Yamani )

lavalamp	lavalamp said 922 days ago (May 15th, 2007)
	Lavalikes Love the pic. You've got a very nice voice on this one.Also, like that background guitar and the bass playing. You ARE a really good song writer. Did you know that? Wish I had a Telecaster and not a Les Paul. Wanna' trade? LL Check out my latest song called Googolplex Times Zero

Tadashi Togawa	Tadashi Togawa said 915 days ago (May 22nd, 2007)
	This bass. This is fat. This drums. This is fat. There is a sense of existence. Wonderful arrangement. Check out my latest song called Mexican taste

stevel	stevel said 909 days ago (May 28th, 2007)
	Lush acoustic rock Very nice track Neil, a good mix of guitar sounds as always...this sounds like one of your more personal songs. I like the repeating 'morse code' guitar bit a lot too...and a good vocal hook wiht the 'saying so you'll know' lyric Cheers Steve Check out my latest song called Electricity

bronco	bronco said 907 days ago (May 29th, 2007)
	Great song Loved the vocal, production and the overall sound here. Very interesting lyrics and I would like to know someday the story behind them but respect your privacy. Check out my latest song called Strange Feeling

	said 905 days ago (June 1st, 2007)
	Awesome Awesome & Great job ... i love this style .. I wish to accept me as new friend .. Thanks for posting .. Regardz ================ Yeman Auf Al-Rawi

steck	steck said 768 days ago (October 15th, 2007)
	Love this one to bits - best MJ's song I've heard for a while. Chrs, Steck Check out my latest song called Fire In The Sky

ILoveVariousArtists

ILoveVariousArtists said 591 days ago (April 10th, 2008)

a fave
This is a great arrangement and a great track. Builds like a monster and the playing and vocals are all excellent. Bass lines play so well off the drums and counterpoint the melody while the rest of the "band" push the whole song harder as it builds up. Love the little Fripp style touches too - prog rules! A great production and a massive track mate.

Check out my latest song called Honest John

richardhowardjones	richardhowardjones said 545 days ago (May 26th, 2008)
	Thanx This song grew on me even as I listened for the first time. When a song does that I know it's gonna stay with me. Check out my latest song called STANDIN' IN THE RAIN

Artist Info

Name: Neil Porter

My old bio page looked pretty out of date, so it’s time for a new one: For the full story, see my interview in the MacJammer Blog "The Jiguma Is Up" by Tobin Mueller. I started to learn guitar when I was about 10 – but didn’t last long be... [see more]

Check out some of my other songs:

Genre Info

More songs in Acoustic Rock:

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