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Who Should Know-Experiment 1 (collab w/Macaudion) by Ejh [Email]
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Keywords:
experiment (30), electric (78), guitar (858), excessive (2), self-indulgent (3), headphone (2), mix (21)
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Description:
As I troupe back off to the drawing board to work on more songs with words and singing and whatnot, here, posted with permission, is an early, experimental mix of the tune that eventually became 'That's EJH', recently reposted on Macaudion's page (www.macjams.com/song/31712)....
Very often when I am trying to work on one of Dion's tunes, I end up making all sorts of rough mixes, either to send to him or to help me find my way through the tune... This is one of those that I ended up keeping on my iPod and getting to really like...
I like walking to work with it in the morning. I find that within a fairly short distance, I am always walking in step with it...
Some important things to say about this:
It's much less polished and worked over than most of the things I do, which may be why I have grown fond of it. It has a bunch of guitar tracks all going at once, and, until the ear gets used to that, it can sound kind of like a mish-mosh...
So... I recommend putting on a decent set of headphones...'cause, for one thing, this is definitely a headphone mix...and letting this creep up on you... Take a walk with it...
There ARE a few bits of guitar loop in Dion's soundbed that aren't me. I think it's pretty obvious which ones those are.
The only thing that I did on this was all the electric guitar with wah stuff. All of the soundbed stuff is Dion. Dion is very generously allowing me to post this in a rough state...
I also hope to put up another "out-take" from the tune with Dion and jgurner that became 'Meeting Disillusionment' pretty soon...
Here's hoping some other ears can get into whatever it is in this that I've gotten to like...
I think my favorite note is the very last one...
Hardware:
iMac G5
Focusrite Saffire
Line 6 Pod 2.0
Charvette electric guitar
whatever Dion uses
Software:
GarageBand
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Hah! &mdash 05/31/07 - 08:59:56 PM
I'm kinda feeling... &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:02:18 PM
Tradition &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:10:30 PM
Hey, there are worse things than having a stampede to be the first to comment on your song, right? ;-)
(Seriously, when I figure out the time difference between me and Australia, I'll pay you to post when he's asleep).
It always shocks me when you rock, but really you're very good at it and I'd like to hear you do it more. I have a song that I never finished, an instrumental, that I just love and have never been able to figure out what else to do with, but I play it all the time and actually really love the repetitiveness of it, so I can relate to having an unfinished or rough mix of a song that still makes you feel groovy. I use it to help me fall asleep sometimes. Your song reminds me of this, the repetitive nature of it never gets old and it kind of feels as though something would be taken away if you added too much more to it.
Of course, that's not to say that it made me feel sleepy...
I think the rhythm actually evokes a bit of a march vibe, which could be played up with drums, maybe that's why you end up in step with it every time. I also really like the tone you got out of the guitar.
I think it's neat to have two songs in a row from you.
[ Reply to This ]
Unfair advantage ;) &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:39:57 PM
I have to say I wasn't prepared for ANOTHER new Ed song yet - you know ... sleeping bag next to the computer, lots of coffee and something to nibble on. A guy can only camp out like that every now and then after all!
What a great little tune Ed - I hear lots of things that aren't there (is that appointment still good for Friday?), and have a rough plan to put some of them in sometime, with your permission.
A very cool electric piece from an old folkie - this reminds me of my "lost years" (the 70s mainly). Very cool last note .. note .. note .. note .........
:)
Neil --- FOLLOW THE BLACK LINE with Alfalpha[ Reply to This ]
almost forgot! &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:45:02 PM
Yes... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:23:17 AM
...let's not forget Dion...ALL of the fun of this tune begins from Dion's amazing capacity to create phenomenal, interesting, unusual tracks...Things that get you going, "Huh...THAT'S different...THAT'S cool...gee...wow..."
And with both this tune and the next one that I want to post, I consider the Dion-produced-and-mixed versions to be the 'real' ones...These are just my hopefully-a-little-interesting side trips off the main line...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Come on, Neil... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:29:21 AM
You're from AUSTRALIA, for Pete's sake...
First of all, you guys are really good with camping. And probably, even camping out with 'sleeping bag next to the computer', the coffee's some exotic and flavorful blend, and the view is some amazing waterfall or something...
If that's you thinking of adding on other things, then be my guest...just run whatever you end up doing past Dion... I can send you a bundle of tracks if you want...
The art of the interminable guitar jam really has not been sufficiently cultivated in recent years, to my ears...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Well... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:13:49 AM
...I want to make clear here that I CAN be bribed...
My MacJams experience HAS always been about the under-the-table pay-offs...
I think you get where I'm coming from about the beloved sloppy or unfinished bits of our own work that we get attached to... I had put this one away at one time, and I would get really happy when it popped up on 'Shuffle'...
I had not thought of it as having a 'march vibe'...I'll have to go watch 'Drum Line' again for context... Maybe one of those marches that has a bit of sway or swagger to it...
I actually like the tone of the guitar on this, and on the one I intend to post next, very much. This one actually started its life as an experiment in tone before it was overly concerned with notes. I remember that I was very frustrated with the match, or, more properly, non-match, between what I was trying to do on guitar and the tracks Dion sent me. So this started out with me sitting with the Charvette in my lap dialing in combinations on the POD and messing with the reverb, delay and other effects, trying to get something that sounded clean but somehow still off-the-beaten-path...
If I can only get some time in my life, I think I can keep things coming for a little while... [He crosses his fingers]...
Thanks for your contined firstification, Lisa...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Hey... &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:05:34 PM
It's a folk song! &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:08:20 PM
Great folk song, Ed!! ;) &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:23:07 PM
(Well....Ok, ok...so I was just trying to get the second comment dibs....)
But seriously....Ed....this is some very cool grooving! :)
Nice crybaby sound and I really like the way you've layered the tracks.
Kudos for posting this 'rough' version. Sometimes those are the best tracks!
And this it totally right for walking--I may just have to add it to the mp3 player I take on my walks :D [ Reply to This ]
Well...sometimes... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:36:25 AM
...I'm just suffering from experimentalness-envy...envy of those who have their 'usual thing' or 'usual style' (or styles) and who also venture out into sounds and directions that people don't expect from them...
Not mentioning any names here...
I have always had respect for musicians who can get things down roughly and quickly and aren't afraid to go with "first thought, best thought"... There often IS something in early tracks that gets lost when things are polished up later, especially for me...
I'm smiling at the thought that this might make the cut for one of your celebrated walks...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
I can appreciate &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:20:56 PM
Thanks, Texas... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:38:09 AM
Hey ED &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:25:44 PM
I like how you think about electric.... you more or less paint with what you have under your fingers... dig it... I'm enjoying what this reveals about you... one of my favorite MJr's... [ Reply to This ]
Hey yerself, Scott... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:41:13 AM
I'm pleased and surprised that you would enjoy this one... I think of you with respect as one of the masters of the worked-out tune around here...
'Paint with what you have under your fingers'.... THAT'S a great phrase...
Thanks for your continued kind encouragement. It does mean a lot to me...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
I'm reminded of a quote... &mdash 05/31/07 - 09:44:59 PM
...that I read in a critic's review of Kansas's Greatest Hits CD. Kansas was compared to other contemporary prog rock bands in these words: "However many progressive influences they explored and however many spiritual questions they pondered, Kansas always managed to play like they were capable of rocking any gritty roadhouse in, well...Kansas. That winning Kansas state of mind was about blowing your mind and kicking your ass while they were at it." I think that about sums up this song. [ Reply to This ]
Thank you... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:45:28 AM
...for a kind compliment, Dharma Logos... I had to laugh, and in a good way...
I have been meaning to check out your music for some time. Plainly the time has come...
Thanks for your listen and comment and all...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
from a guitarist perspective.. &mdash 05/31/07 - 10:18:33 PM
I've been waiting for sometime (and wishing) that you may someday let loose and go with it. A lot of great use of playing the effects. theres a difference... then just slapping one on. You stayed in the groove and played some mighty fine lines.
Now lets get those bandanas and scarves on and kiss the sky. [ Reply to This ]
It is my fond hope... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:49:28 AM
...that, in between the acoustic folkie things that I seem to be principally known for, I get to have some fun with the electric guitar...
Whatever else its flaws may be, on this tune I did have fun...
Bandanas...scarves...where DID I put them....
Y'know, I DID recently find my old tie-dyed sweatshirt from my teenage years... Had to part with it, as mice had been nesting in it, but it was cool to see its wonderful, exuberant garishness again...
Thanks, Vic...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Nice funky guitar groove &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:37:28 AM
This develops along nicely..I like all the guitar voices you have going there. Funky and cool
Steve [ Reply to This ]
Now, see... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:52:35 AM
...this is what makes it worthwhile for me...
Getting described as having produced something 'funky' happens for me about as often as I get mentioned in the same breath with Kansas...
What fun. Glad you liked it, Steve...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Electrified... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:48:15 AM
...Native American celebration...
...Great jam, guys. Absolutely love the tones of the guitars. The wah was a nice touch in there. Like li'l fishies navigating the currents... [ Reply to This ]
Hello, Bob... &mdash 06/01/07 - 07:55:21 AM
I'll have to listen again for the Native American thing...
I'm glad you like the jam, and the tones, and the wah...
I love that 'li'l fishies' metaphor... That'll stick with me....
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Like it when &mdash 06/01/07 - 08:13:32 AM
goes into uncharted musical territories never before explored by man. Nice and funky.
Thanks for sharing Ed and MacAudion! [ Reply to This ]
His two-year mission... &mdash 06/01/07 - 03:28:59 PM
...to search out new rhythms and new, possibly warped tonalities...to boldy go...
Thank you as always for listening, Bill...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
wah &mdash 06/01/07 - 05:58:04 PM
I think there is some 'cry baby' fx on that guitar tone. Tasty. The catchy hook-line you're serving through the piece is holding the tune together. on the bed of fancy groove from mr macca, you float on a breeze of dreamy echoes and the guitarist's wet dream of sweet guitar sound. [ Reply to This ]
You are right, of course... &mdash 06/01/07 - 08:32:25 PM
I didn't mention it in the equipment list, but that IS a Jim Dunlop Crybaby wah, the cheap, basic model that always breaks... two days after the warranty or returns policy expires... Mine still works, sort of, but it 'catches' from time to time in its travel and I have to sort of kick it in mid-wah... I try to tell myself that it adds to its charm...
It doesn't really, but it keeps me from buying a new one. For now.
You know how figure-and-ground studies go...you look at it one way and it's one picture and another way and it's something else... I've been listening to this on the way to and from work today, and I'm really hearing straight through to the Macca-work, and really, it's the miracle in this tune... I love the "bed of fancy groove" he put together...
"A breeze of dreamy echoes" is another good phrase... Sounds like it should be in a Robin Trower song, doesn't it? I am glad that you like the guitar sound...I think of you as being one of the MacJams guitarists who pays attention to matters of tone...
Thanks for your encouraging words,--again--Thoddi...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Cool ass guitar! &mdash 06/01/07 - 08:19:00 PM
Nice playing, it somehow reminds me of Keith Richard's guitar circa Goat Head's soup which is still to this day IMHO an album ahead of its time, good stuff [ Reply to This ]
Goat's Head... &mdash 06/01/07 - 08:36:35 PM
Now, THAT is an LP that I don't think I ever listened to all the way through... I don't know why...I was always a big fan of the interplay between Keith Richards and Mick Taylor in the middle-era Stones...
Looks like I'll have to go look it up and listen...
Thanks for listening and commenting....
Ed [ Reply to This ]
nice &mdash 06/02/07 - 08:55:40 AM
experiment indeed.....i always enjoy the sound of guitars talking to each other(gee , i wonder why...hehhehh)...ryhthmic quips and flow.....this has a ziti type ambiance which is kinda hip.....i can also hear u smiling through the playing.......i've heard guitar playing will do that .......peace... [ Reply to This ]
I'm getting a lot of phrases... &mdash 06/02/07 - 03:23:03 PM
...from people that kind of sound like what I was trying to do in my own, experimental, part of all this... "guitars talking to each other" would be one of those...
Of course, "rhythmic quips and flow" sounds like Dion incarnate...He ought to trademark that phrase...
"A ziti type ambience", eh? Gotta come from multitracking guitars with the POD... Fran is the master of POD ambience.... Fran's the master of a whole heck of a lot, actually...
Yeah, there is some smiling in this playing...probably smiling while doing the playing and some extra smiling when Dion let me post the "self-indulgent version"... Some kinds of playing, I think, will get you smiling, and some sorts of smiling will get you into playing...
Thanks, McBoy, for all your recent encouragement...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Great mix &mdash 06/02/07 - 01:14:33 PM
This has a relentless, chugging sound... like it's both taking off and landing all of the time. Ok, I know that only made sense to me, haha. The layers of guitar sound great, and of course the beat is impossible not to lock into. I like the way it builds in intensity, and the whole listen is rather hypnotic. Nice work, gentlemen. [ Reply to This ]
Whoo...David likes the mix... &mdash 06/02/07 - 03:54:30 PM
And again, the cool parts are, I think, what Dion has done here rhythmically and tonally...There's some low stuff in there that rocks my headphones...
"Relentless, chugging sound" is another in the day's catch of cool phrases... and I think that, also, owes a lot to Dion's conception of rhythm...
"Like it's both taking off and landing all of the time".... I must have a warped brain, 'cause I think I get what you mean...
Really, the beat IS one that you lock into...it really is an experience to take a walk listening to this...hypnotic is, I think, part of that same rhythmic experience....
Thanks for great listen and great comments again, David....
Ed [ Reply to This ]
walk with it &mdash 06/02/07 - 04:10:42 PM
Killer clean guitar sound you have cookin' here, yep, hard not to get into the "walk" on this, very intoxicating.
The response could be in more 'clean', or even a super hard crunch in the back.
Nice work and sound, thanks for sharing it.
. - Harold [ Reply to This ]
Glad you're catching... &mdash 06/03/07 - 01:43:06 PM
...the 'walking groove' with this one, Harold...
I'm pleased that you appeciate the clean guitar sound... One of the things that was going on with this set of takes and rough mix was me just dialing in different guitar tones, and searching for a cleaner tone than I used to use... (I started out using the heavily overdriven 'rectifier' tones originally)...
I'm not sure what you are saying in the second paragraph there, so if you can explain it a bit more, that'd be helpful...
Thanks for your listening ears and your thoughts...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
I guess I was saying... &mdash 06/03/07 - 04:30:53 PM
that this clean work would work well with a crunchy and distorted guitar backing, or it would go well with just more of the clean sound. Sorry about being vague.
very nice work here, even if left to stand alone!
Best!
. - Harold [ Reply to This ]
Heat !! &mdash 06/03/07 - 04:10:51 AM
very powerfull ...and tastey guitars
enjoyed alot ... jammin is the best thing
to be heard here ..now what we gonna call it ?
a folkie went progressive ??? sounds cool though !
well done my friends !!
[ Reply to This ]
A folkie went progressive... &mdash 06/03/07 - 01:58:56 PM
I did have a theory at one point...it goes, "prog rock is just folk rock with keyboards...and a really good drummer..."
Of course, I could be wrong...I don't think this has the requisite synth and mellotron elements...
I mostly posted this as 'progressive' because that's how Dion posted the original. I went and looked.
What I like about Dion's work is that it's actually more progressive than progressive is, to my ears... He steps off more beaten paths, and ventures wherever his curiousity takes him... And his rhythmic sense is phenomenal...
And for me, this was simply a lot of fun, getting to mess around with guitar stuff and worry way less about structure than I usually do...'cause Dion was providing the structure...
Glad you listened, Feter, and glad you left your impressions...
Ed
[ Reply to This ]
Well well well... &mdash 06/04/07 - 07:50:29 AM
... I wasn't expecting - this what a gorgeous mele of grit and melifluence!
KK [ Reply to This ]
Well for that matter, Martyn... &mdash 06/06/07 - 07:25:26 PM
I wouldn't have thought you'd take to this one... Glad you did, though...
What IS that missing letter in the line above?
Thanks for listening...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Well... &mdash 06/07/07 - 07:28:08 PM
I'm into all sorts really - that word was supposed to be melee with an acute accent over the 2nd e - unfortunately MJ doesn't like foriegn words.
KK
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Latest track: <a href="http://www.macjams.com/song/32107"> Impossible you say </a> [ Reply to This ]
And... &mdash 06/07/07 - 07:29:47 PM
I can't spell foreign!
KK
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Latest track: <a href="http://www.macjams.com/song/32107"> Impossible you say </a> [ Reply to This ]
out take? &mdash 06/04/07 - 12:23:33 PM
Ed, this is great. Reminds me of some of me favorite early jam bands. You integrate seamlessly with Mac's sound bed. Its big brotha holding company playin the extended jams. You have such a great sound with the electric. Hope to hear more like this. Thats what's great about this place. Two talented (and yet diverse) musicians can collab and it makes a third element. Equal & brillaint, but distinctly separate from the components.
Macca: kudo's to you sir, for placing such unique pallettes to play against [ Reply to This ]
Well, more of a 'pre-take', really... &mdash 06/06/07 - 07:32:21 PM
Or...'a collection of all the guitar takes so far all plunked into one quick mix together'...
You HAVE happened onto to my secret dream, which is to be a jam band...
It IS what is cool about MacJams, getting to work with someone like Dion who approaches music so very differently from anyone else I know... It does end up being something that neither of us is likely to produce on our own...
I love using that word 'palette' to describe what Dion brings to the mix... He does take what seems like a painterly approach to making music, and he does produce a rhythm bed that is not like any other...
Thanks as always for your take on things, John...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Great playing &mdash 06/05/07 - 07:06:17 AM
This just chugs along, with outstanding guitar work all the way through. I love the guitar sounds, and the weaving together of the different guitar threads makes for a magnificent tapestry. Long live the jam! Nice work. Peace. [ Reply to This ]
I'm pleased and surprised... &mdash 06/06/07 - 07:35:15 PM
...that you like the guitar...
It is very cool that you like the guitar sounds, as I really did spend some time getting a sound that I liked... I like the interweaving, too, even though much of it is fortunate accident...
And yes, may the the jam live on...
Thanks for listening again, dajama...
Ed
[ Reply to This ]
Nice mix! &mdash 06/05/07 - 06:01:30 PM
Thanks, Doug... &mdash 06/06/07 - 07:37:21 PM
I'm psyched that you liked the mix...
Cyclical as it is, I'm glad that you got a sense of momentum from this, too...
I do always love working with Dion...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Hey! &mdash 06/07/07 - 11:52:16 AM
Cyclical, in this case is a good thing! As a matter of fact, I think most things, good and bad, cycle. You put it together right!
---
May your shoes bah-doo... [ Reply to This ]
Diggin it &mdash 06/05/07 - 08:31:20 PM
Lots of drive It just marches on and on the guitar just circling around the steady beat Great song! [ Reply to This ]
Thanks, egobandit! &mdash 06/06/07 - 07:40:00 PM
'Guitar circling around the steady beat' is a good description of this tune...
'Drive' is up there with 'momentum'... we like it...
So long as it ends up sounding like fun....
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Great song title &mdash 06/08/07 - 11:55:53 AM
Ed-The title of this song is awesome.I bet it sounds really good too.(I still can't get it to play.)I sent off a note about problems-they wrote back wanting to know my server etc.But haven't heard back.
Mark [ Reply to This ]
It's all in the title, Mark... &mdash 07/01/07 - 03:17:24 PM
I'm glad that, by the time I've gotten around to answering this, you have managed to get up and running as a MacJammer...
Now you've got to do two things:
Come back and listen to this song.
Get one (or more) of your own posted.
Ed [ Reply to This ]
It's all in the title, Mark... &mdash 07/01/07 - 03:17:24 PM
I'm glad that, by the time I've gotten around to answering this, you have managed to get up and running as a MacJammer...
Now you've got to do two things:
Come back and listen to this song.
Get one (or more) of your own posted.
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Electric Ladyland &mdash 08/08/07 - 03:03:17 PM
Great sounds here, bluesy, funky. Some talking blues - soul like vocals would be nice here! Although I'm quite happy with instrumental music.
I can't help it, but I hear Hendrix's voice all the time during this, reminds me of bits from Electric Ladyland. [ Reply to This ]
Hello again, oniblah... &mdash 08/08/07 - 09:19:29 PM
I'm glad you checked this out and enjoyed it... And any reference to Jimi Hendrix associated with a track I played on is going to be well received, merited or not...
I really do hope that you get a chance to hear some of what I usually do, which is the more folk oriented stuff that's a bit more smoothly produced. I'd be interested to hear how that stuff strikes you...
Thanks for listening and commenting... I appreciate it...
Ed [ Reply to This ]
Folk &mdash 08/09/07 - 12:27:25 PM
No I really love Folk. (Folk-Rock, Folk, Irish Folk, …) I've been listening to Bob dylan, Derroll Adams, Lindisfarne, Steeleye Span, Fairport Convention, a lot of Neil Young throughout many years, and they all have inspired me. I still think what Bob Dylan did in the early days was very intense. But I really like Neil Young because he appeals to the "loner" in all of us (lyrics, the really special chords, and sound of his voice and guitar) [ Reply to This ]
This kind of FUN is worth having &mdash 04/14/08 - 08:37:45 PM
RE: "It's much less polished and worked over than most of the things I do, which may be why I have grown fond of it." ... to that I say, been there and done that - to the point where I may stay loose and lazy and have fun on another one, and another... while waiting for the next "real" song (as in with lyrics and a traditional structure) to surface.
All of which is to say: good to hear you at play. Nice jam. [ Reply to This ]
Wah Wah! LeDeb beat me to it again! (But only by a year!) &mdash 08/12/08 - 07:46:39 AM
Hey Ed, isn't it about time you submitted another song? You've reduced me to going through your back catalog! Only one submission so far this year, and your public wants more!
Well, I think this is pretty cool. Nice to hear stuff that's not a highly-polished final version sometimes. It has a good, shuffling kind of groove to it.
"There ARE a few bits of guitar loop in Dion's soundbed that aren't me."
-Do you mean that Dion has some guitar bits of his own in here too -- 'cause if so, I'm not sure I could tell which they might have been -- or Dion added non-guitar bits? Just curious.
Anyway, I hope you're working on something, and I'll look forward to it when it gets posted! [ Reply to This ]
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Firsties!
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