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MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 888
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:A 9/11 Acknowledgement
Tuesday, October 02 2018 @ 07:46 PM CDT

I regret that you feel this way about me.   Even more so that you would decide to express it here in such craven terms.   Fellow musician, I have never met you.   But you are entitled to freedom of speech, as am I.

My position on the matter is simple:   I believe that more than 3,000 innocent people plaintiffs lost their lives just in New York City, in an unfathomable Federal crime that has never been properly investigated, nor considered at all by the Federal Courts in any district.   There is an abundance of apparent evidence which today clearly suggests ... to a degree that now appears to a great many people besides myself to be worthy of legally require formal consideration by the legal process ... that these thousands of murders have not yet been solved.

It is time to invoke “the Due Process of Law,” and to do so is not an option – it is the Law.

Neither the Executive Branch of the US Government, nor anyone else, is legally entitled to say to the Judiciary that these plaintiffs may not, posthumously, invoke and enjoy the justice process.   They are not entitled to “shut the books” and to impose their own answer.   Especially not with regard to the Capital crime of “murder in the First Degree.”  Per contra, the law says that justice must be done.   The case is not closed:   nearly twenty years later, it has not yet even been opened.

If a felony has been committed against thousands of people, they and their survivors are entitled to the benefit of the entire legal system with regard to a crime that has no statute of limitations.   That “apparent evidence” is entitled required to be presented to, and considered by, our nation’s citizen juries, starting with grand juries.



If you care to call this “a conspiracy theory,” I would simply point out that most other “conspiracies” involve the death of only one person, or a very small handful of people, or the death of no one at all.   But in this case, many thousands of people died directly, in New York City alone, and the apparent evidence strongly suggests the existence of a much larger and more organized criminal enterprise, the full extent of which is perhaps not yet known.   Well, “due process” exists for this very purpose, and the presence of [thousands of ...] plaintiffs makes all the difference.

It doesn’t really matter what you or I may think about that “apparent evidence” ...the law simply declares that it must be presented to the citizen jury as the first legal step.   Let them do with it as they will.   Exactly as they would be doing if somebody shot your neighbor.   Or, you.
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 3021
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:A 9/11 Acknowledgement
Tuesday, October 02 2018 @ 11:38 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
Federal crime that has never been properly investigated,



Yes it has. You started with that 3rd tower. Minimal googling told me that its collapse is completely explainable.

You don't seem very receptive to anything that goes against your position. In fact, you never responsed to my explanation, and now you're repeating your earlier position, except with fewer claims to unexplained phenomena. You're basically shouting "I don't believe it" without going into precisely what and why.

You are indeed disqualifying yourself from discussion.

Victor.

-- My CD.
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 888
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:A 9/11 Acknowledgement
Wednesday, October 03 2018 @ 04:37 PM CDT

I daresay that I cling to my closely-held opinions no more and no less than anyone else does.   Especially musicians, who are well-known to be fervent and passionate people.   Plus, an ad hominem attack really doesn’t do too much around here.   Don’t shoot the messenger – it doesn’t become you.

In this case, it really doesn’t matter whether or not “I, or you, ‘believe it.’”   Grand Juries have broad and expansive powers for precisely this reason.   They’re probably the most-important facet of our entire legal system.   The presence or the absence of an “explanation,” official or not, does not limit their power or their reach, nor does it prevent the legal system from going forward in the prosecution of thousands of felonies.

The law says the exact same thing with regard to the Federal crime of capital murder, whether it consisted of someone shooting you in the head, or thousands of people dying in office buildings.   If the US Government offered an official explanation as to how and why you got shot in the head, this would not abrogate dead-your legal rights, nor your family’s rights when they returned from your funeral.

We don't just get to stand around speculating among ourselves as to how and why three buildings collapsed into their own footprints on that fateful day.   This was the premeditated murder of thousands of ... plaintiffs.   Just in New York City.   An official explanation which is unacceptable to a great many people (including experts), and most-certainly to me, does not preclude the due process of law, starting with the grand jury(ies).   This is not for you nor me to decide the way forward:   that duty rests with citizen juries.   Ultimately, this matter won’t be decided by FEMA or NIST:   it will be decided by citizens, doing their civic duty in the Federal Courts.

And I must say that I’ve been waiting for this ... for seventeen years.   I’m not alone.



Remember that, if we talk about, say, “the murder of JFK,” or some other conspiracy theory, then there’s only one plaintiff:   Poor John.™   But certainly not in this case.   The Kennedy estate did not press murder charges, so the Warren Commission results remain official, officially un-contested, and now officially un-contestable.   Not so in this case.   These plaintiffs are real, and there are thousands of them.   This is not idle wool-gathering – this is the Law.



So, let’s please be determined to remain respectful in our discussions, and in our apparent disagreement.   This matter is obviously very current, as evidenced e.g. in this recent post (and 30-minute video) on the Corbett Report, dated 8/31/2018.   All of us can easily afford to maintain our decorum, and we certainly should remember to do so.   Both the gravity of the situation, and the memories of the thousands of plaintiffs, I think, deserves that.

“To get this evidence in the hands of 12 to 23 normal people, and let them see if they think a crime has been committed.”
(video: 08:24)
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 3021
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:A 9/11 Acknowledgement
Wednesday, October 03 2018 @ 10:55 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson

“To get this evidence in the hands of 12 to 23 normal people, and let them see if they think a crime has been committed.”
(video: 08:24)



It's a matter of structural engineering. Do you think that 12 ordinary people can in the span of a trial be brought to judge such a technical matter? Plus the fact that you can only have a jury if there is a trial, which you can only have if there is someone on trial.

I note that you haven't even tried addressing my point, despite me having pointed out that you keep blowing hot air instead of addressing the point.

Victor.

-- My CD.
 
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 888
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:A 9/11 Acknowledgement
Thursday, October 04 2018 @ 12:06 PM CDT

"The law of the land says yes."   And, I say, “thank God it does.”

There is “someone on trial,” and the identity(ies) of that someone is yet to be determined.   What we have right now is several thousand unsolved capital murders.   The Grand Jury’s task will not be easy.   The perpetrators have not yet been chased down, although there are a great many suspects aside from the idiots on those airplanes, who very likely were mere pawns in a much, much larger game.   There are obviously those people out there who want that larger game to remain comfortably buried, as though it did not exist at all.   But, there are others (like me) who feel very differently.   What happened on that day is preposterous, yet, if we do not get to the bottom of this, it could easily happen again.   9/11 certainly redefines what “the threats which face us all” can actually be, especially when you dare to look more closely.   Heh ... “so much for ‘comfort zones!’”

The Grand Jury concept stretches back more than nine centuries, and it stipulates that jurors, operating in secret and whose findings are not then publicly disclosed, are the best to evaluate – and, if need be, to subpoena – all of the available evidence in order to decide whether a case exists that can be brought to court, and to define its parameters.

They do not decide the case.

In my opinion, the “official explanations” are obviously blind, and prematurely closed.   Even at that time, there was contemporaneous evidence that they did not consider.   Much more has appeared since then.   The “officials” seem willing for their conclusions to remain closed, but there are over 2,500 plaintiffs (just in New York City) whose lives were snuffed out by Murder in the First Degree in a monumental crime which, to a great many people now, appears to be unsolved.   Well, that’s why we have Grand Juries.

Yes, composed of ordinary citizens. Who may, in secret, hear testimony from structural engineers or anyone (and everyone) else they see fit to ask ...or compel ... to testify.

JFK = one plaintiff.   RFK = one plaintiff.   MLK = one plaintiff.   9/11 = thousands of plaintiffs.

Why did it take nearly two decades for people to realize that these capital felonies must be heard in Court?   I have no idea.